Paramilitary Style Group Protests In Luton

[BlackArab]

treelover

had a look at the fb site and I'm not totally convinced that that the bnp or other facist groups are behind this despite some of the posts. It's seems more like the kind of youth who are easy recruits for the Far Right who will be there to do this just this. This makes it even more important for the Left to be there to engage with them not confront, unless they have to.

Sadly I doubt that this will happen.

 

[dylans]

They, if you are talking about al-Muhajiroun work not only within the "Muslim"
community, but also act in an evangelical manner, knew a couple of white people who joined act almost as a surrogate family!

I know one white guy who was around them. Nevertheless, I think it is reasonable to assume that the kind of Wahabite Islamism they are preaching is predominantly aimed at Sunni Muslims. They are extremely sectarian when it comes to other Muslims such as Shia for example.

The nature of their theology itself creates obstacles to them recruiting outside the Sunni although I am sure it happens occasionally.

 

[audiotech]

A number of reasons tbh mate.

Because the BNP have learnt from the mistakes of the NF in the 70s/80s and have been successful at marketing themselves towards the mainstream.

Being overtly racist in public and surrounding yourself with bonesheads seig-heilling and screaming 'Wogs Out' is not a vote winner in middle England.

The BNP are not openly talking about repatriating Rio Ferdinand or Dizzee Rascal, they are smarter than that.

Post 9-11/7-7 Islamaphobia has been a massive boost for them and they are taking advantage of this and people's fears and ignorance.

At the same time we have the continuing failure of the English Left to engage with the white working class and challenge the BNP (IMO).

Being overtly racist would see the BNP in the courts again. Now it's more coded by fuelling fears about Muslims, immigrants and asylum seekers and they get away with it.

Whether they can keep their bonehead supporters on a tight leash is debatable given recent events in Luton?

The failure of the 'left' is not breaking from Labourism and those that have not involving themselves in sectarian bickering.

It's about engaging with the working class as a whole and not just the 'white' working class.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

MC5

The failure of the 'left' is not breaking from Labourism and those that have not involving themselves in sectarian bickering.

This.

 

[butchersapron]

Being overtly racist would see the BNP in the courts again. Now it's more coded by fuelling fears about Muslims, immigrants and asylum seekers and they get away with it.

Whether they can keep their bonehead supporters on a tight leash is debatable given recent events in Luton?

The failure of the 'left' is not breaking from Labourism and those that have not involving themselves in sectarian bickering.

It's about engaging with the working class as a whole and not just the 'white' working class.

The unbelievable cheek of it. Amazing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't forget Botham's glorious ashes of '81.

On this nonsense of a UF with al-Muhajiroun - what on earth makes anyone think they want a UF with the left, or indeed anyone outside of the existing muslim communities? They're actively hostile to the left, necessarily so due to their ideology - their whole approach is that the left cannot deal with the problems in these communities, only they and their theocracy can. The last thing they want is to work with any elements of the left. The BNP are far closer top them with their cultural seperatist BS. Dream world stuff.

I did a post in reply to Nigel asking exactly how al-Mu were relevant, given a million and a half-plus Muslims of various stripes in the UK, and al-Mu being a couple of hundred publicity-hungry die-hards, but my PC had a fit.
I mean, can al-Mu be said to actually represent any UK Muslims except themselves, and would anyone besides themselves want to be represented by them?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It shows. More abuse than any thought out line.

Cunt off, fucknuts!!
(Just living down to your expectations )

 

[ViolentPanda]

The unbelievable cheek of it. Amazing.

I'm sort of reminded of something the tories did in the late '70s, with regard to stealing clothes, but perhaps I'm just being cynical?

 

[BlackArab]

Being overtly racist would see the BNP in the courts again. Now it's more coded by fuelling fears about Muslims, immigrants and asylum seekers and they get away with it.

Whether they can keep their bonehead supporters on a tight leash is debatable given recent events in Luton?

The failure of the 'left' is not breaking from Labourism and those that have not involving themselves in sectarian bickering.

It's about engaging with the working class as a whole and not just the 'white' working class.

Good points, totally agree. I should explain that the reason why I made the point about the white working class specifically is that the failure to engage them has allowed the BNP to step in and show they 'care'.

If the Left cannot even do this, there's no hope in hell of connecting with ethnic minorities in this country.

 

[Nigel]

United British Alliance. A 'non-racist' group of 'lad' types, always banging on about preachers of hate and Islam.

According to St++m Fr\|t there were attacks against Asain people while the demonstration was going on.

So much for the anti-racist nature of the march

 

[Streathamite]

The failure of the 'left' is not breaking from Labourism and those that have not involving themselves in sectarian bickering.

It's about engaging with the working class as a whole and not just the 'white' working class.

and you ARE a swappie, ain'tcha? In which case - blimey that's rich.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Seeing as the Swaps are so far the only major group to make serious attempts in doing so, not really at all.

 

[dennisr]

the Swaps are so far the only major group to make serious attempts in doing so

Uber - that's simply not true. Even if we avoid discussing the results of those 'attempts' - due to the manner in which these attempts were made imo

(note for dylan: you notice how I don't resort to a series of 'you are all running lapdogs of capitalism/unionism/fascism'/ 'you bombed the argentinians' / 'you killed my mum' etc etc in pointing to political differences of opinion - leaving the poster the opportunity to further argue their actual point of view)

 

[Nigel]

Uber - that's simply not true. Even if we avoid discussing the results of those 'attempts' - due to the manner in which these attempts were made imo

(note for dylan: you notice how I don't resort to a series of 'you are all running lapdogs of capitalism/unionism/fascism'/ 'you bombed the argentinians' / 'you killed my mum' etc etc in pointing to political differences of opinion - leaving the poster the opportunity to further argue their actual point of view)

Yeah I've always thought what a calm and objective poster you are Dennisr

 

[Nigel]

I did a post in reply to Nigel asking exactly how al-Mu were relevant, given a million and a half-plus Muslims of various stripes in the UK, and al-Mu being a couple of hundred publicity-hungry die-hards, but my PC had a fit.
I mean, can al-Mu be said to actually represent any UK Muslims except themselves, and would anyone besides themselves want to be represented by them?

They can have quite an impact as was seen at Anti War Demo (think 2004), because of their evangelical nature tactics can pick up on dissaffcted people and use them to their own ends, seen by many Muslim youth as the only group doing anything, even if they don't want anything to do with them or be associated with them.

 

[dennisr]

Yeah I've always thought what a calm and objective poster you are Dennisr

with other calm and objective posters, of course - with ejets - "2 calm posts and then delare war"

 

[ViolentPanda]

They can have quite an impact as was seen at Anti War Demo (think 2004)...

They didn't so much "have an impact" as arner a lot of publicity from a gullible and biased press.

because of their evangelical nature tactics can pick up on dissaffcted people and use them to their own ends, seen by many Muslim youth as the only group doing anything, even if they don't want anything to do with them or be associated with them.

Have a ponder on the implications of the above, and then tell me how al-Mu are relevant.
Again, bear in mind that we have about 1.7 million UK Muslims, and that al-Mu are heavily surveilled.

 

[butchersapron]

Not to mention the very likely Conrad/Secret Agent situation.

 

[dylans]

(note for dylan: you notice how I don't resort to a series of 'you are all running lapdogs of capitalism/unionism/fascism'/ 'you bombed the argentinians' / 'you killed my mum' etc etc in pointing to political differences of opinion - leaving the poster the opportunity to further argue their actual point of view)

Note for dennis.

Wow I rattled your cage didn't I? You really didn't like the the true face of your own history being shown up did you?

So, defensive. So easily rattled.

You threw your rattle out of the cot there dennis. A little temper tantrum.

What was it? "Nasty,evil cunt"? WTF.

The truth hurts doesn't it.?

Doesn't change the fact that your track record on support for anti war and anti-imperialist struggles around issues like Iraq, Palestine etc is terrible.

And as such, your integrity on questions like the anti homecoming march is compromised.

Time and again your organisation has turned away from supporting anti imperialism in the face of patriotic jongoism and patriotism. Ireland being the worst example. Your attitude to the troops homecoming demonstration is of the same tired old labourist vein. (if that's lingoese I'm sorry, but it true)

On a different tack. er..Are you really proud to be applauded by illiterate retards like that moron streathamite? Do you really want to be on the same side as a guy who (really badly) tries to defend the fucking Kuwaiti Royal family? Embarrassing.

 

[audiotech]

The unbelievable cheek of it. Amazing.

I've never been a member of the the Labour party, but I seem to recall you have?

 

[audiotech]

and you ARE a swappie, ain'tcha? In which case - blimey that's rich.

It would be a bit rich if I was a card carrying member of the Labour party, which I'm not and never have been.

 

[butchersapron]

I've never been a member of the the Labour party, but I seem to recall you have?

You'll now furnish me with the relavence of this whilst saying vote labour to stop the BNP -each and very time. Fact is. you've spent the last 5 years lambsting those of us who have broken with auto-labourism as being ultra-left and other worthless small-world slurs.

 

[BlackArab]

Note for dennis.

Wow I rattled your cage didn't I? You really didn't like the the true face of your own history being shown up did you?

So, defensive. So easily rattled.

You threw your rattle out of the cot there dennis. A little temper tantrum.

What was it? "Nasty,evil cunt"? WTF.

The truth hurts doesn't it.?

Doesn't change the fact that your track record on support for anti war and anti-imperialist struggles around issues like Iraq, Palestine etc is terrible.

And as such, your integrity on questions like the anti homecoming march is compromised.

Time and again your organisation has turned away from supporting anti imperialism in the face of patriotic jongoism and patriotism. Ireland being the worst example. Your attitude to the troops homecoming demonstration is of the same tired old labourist vein. (if that's lingoese I'm sorry, but it true)

On a different tack. er..Are you really proud to be applauded by illiterate retards like that moron streathamite? Do you really want to be on the same side as a guy who (really badly) tries to defend the fucking Kuwaiti Royal family? Embarrassing.

and just as I thought this thread seemed to have risen above abuse and started to look like debate I was proved wrong.

BA - People's Front of Judea

 

[Streathamite]

It would be a bit rich if I was a card carrying member of the Labour party, which I'm not and never have been.

for as long as I have been politically conscious the SWP, in terms of membership and culture has been far more islingtonesque-bourgeois than even the LP.
Not saying you are (hard to, as we've not met). The SWP turned away from hardcore workerist politics to the politics of identity and pseudo-diversity before even the LP 'trendy left' did.

 

[Streathamite]

Seeing as the Swaps are so far the only major group to make serious attempts in doing so, not really at all.

sorry, but on which planet?

 

[butchersapron]

and just as I thought this thread seemed to have risen above abuse and started to look like debate I was proved wrong.

BA - People's Front of Judea

I agree with you on PFD stuff, it's just the sheer cheek of this bloke turning around and nicking the clothes off my back. He's been arguing the exact opposite for years and calling people like the IWCA who've been putting his new found approach into real life practice all sorts. It's just amazing. I'll leave off that low level stuff though, we're talking about things here.

 

[Streathamite]

On a different tack. er..Are you really proud to be applauded by illiterate retards like that moron streathamite? Do you really want to be on the same side as a guy who (really badly) tries to defend the fucking Kuwaiti Royal family? Embarrassing.

frankly, you sir, are too much of a lying, pig-ignorant tool to be taken seriously, which is why no-one does, especially as you know damn well I did NOT defend the Emirs' bunch byut his subjects. but do look up the phrase 'self-determination' in mummy's dictionary, you ignorant, thick-as-fuck, posturing genetic disaster.
e2a: which is why dennis and I, who know each other, would be proud to call each other comrades. which is more than anyone has ever said about you. braindead twat.

 

[BlackArab]

I agree with you on PFD stuff, it's just the sheer cheek of this bloke turning around and nicking the clothes off my back. He's been arguing the exact opposite for years and calling people like the IWCA who've been putting his new found approach into real life practice all sorts. It's just amazing. I'll leave off that low level stuff though, we're talking about things here.

As far as I'm concerned everybody on this thread is anti-BNP which makes everyone pretty good people IMO. The loss of focus from the important issue is driving me to despair.

 

[dylans]

frankly, you sir, are too much of a pig-ignorant tool to be taken seriously, which is why no-one does. but do look up the phrase 'self-determination' in mummy's dictionary, you ignorant, thick-as-fuck, posturing genetic disaster.

You do realise that you wrote absolutely nothing in that post? Self determination for Kuwaiti citizens?
Do you know the population of Kuwait? 3.5 million.

Do you know how many of those are actually citizens? 1 million.

Two thirds of the population of Kuwait are not citizens. They do all the work for an oil corrupt minority who treat them like slaves. They have no rights. Many of them were born there but they can be expelled with no notice. Following the heroic liberation of kuwait, the Kuwaitis rounded up and expelled 100.000 of them. They murdered hundreds of palestinians.

National self determination for a gaggle of corrupt oil rich royals who keep 2/3rds of their population in virtual slavery. Your priorities are warped.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not to mention the very likely Conrad/Secret Agent situation.

Or, even worse, the man who was thursday.