Paramilitary Style Group Protests In Luton
- Thread starter greenman
- Start date
yup
dennisr
the acceptable face
You would have been a 'social chauvanist' (ho, ho) along with the Militants on the ground at the time then. We pushed for worker's militia's (a 'trade union defence force' to translate into the real language of the time and place) - united worker's militia's - as we have done on a number of occasions since in the wake of sectarian atrocities. Against the stream - but non-the less nowt to be ashamed of.
Fine - you given me the opportunity to dispel a few lies.
Did you read what I said (its repeated a thousand times in Militants literature) - or are you going to simply ignore it and repeat the same lie?
The two 'sides' were not equated. The necessity of working class unity was central to our entire 'social chauvanist' (sic) programme. The betrayal of the nationalist working clas (if you want to continue the rhetoric *sighs*...) was the uncritical cheerleading of nationalist leaders by the brit left in the name of saintly 'anti-imperialism' and resulting utter silence on the need for a strategy to build working class unity rather than reinforce division.
You may not like the Militants position (ok, thats kind of obvious...) but they were there and are still there. Still putting forward a class position on the ground - among both communities (to use the generalisation) rather than standing on the sidelines 'demanding' that protestants joined the nationalist struggle which was frankly on a hiding to nothing. Personally, I see no reason to be ashamed - the end results of the armed struggle have shown only that what we pushed for - on the ground and against the stream - was right all along.
yes surely he supports North Korea's brave anti imperialist stance on behalf of the peace loving peoples of Korea
so by supportting nationalism on one side you break the others from imperialism?? don't talk crap! that is utter lack of logic ..
dennisr
the acceptable face
potential allies in Winchester in this anti imperialist struggle:
http://www.korea-dpr.com/users/jisge/
"We were formed in 1985 in Winchester, Hampshire as the Group for the Study of Marshal Kim Il Sung's Works. We reformed the group in 1990 and renamed the group in 1995 to incoporate the name of the illustrious General Kim Jong Il into our title. "
havent you got some pigeons to shout at
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
The apparent 'crimes' of Militant are something we will have to limp along with until the revolution I'm guessing...
You'll be lucky.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Sorry, can't help but repeat this simple point
Was that the 'war of national liberation' that led to thousands of pointless deaths, working class communities bitterly divided by sectarianism and a bunch of new 'enlightened' nationalist politicians in 'power' to pass on neo-liberal cuts on behalf of the british state?
the working class of NI must be queueing up to shake your 'anti-imperialist' hand. thanks dylan, thanks for both the hot air and the wind.
Of course you not with them now - traitors to the struggle - are you??
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
lol.
Do you even understand what your words mean?
You know fuck all about what I do or get involved with. How do you think you're going to score points down this line of inquiry?
I'll have you know I've played a fairly active role in defending the role the SP played in the Lyndsey strikes, and criticising the immediate and utter condemnation of the rest of the left. Regardless, from what I have from significant numbers of first-hand eyewitnesses is that the SP on no level challenged the British Jobs for British Workers' slogan, and I know first-hand that no criticism of the nationalist element of the strike was criticised or discussed in the paper, which even triumphalised the process as representing "Shades of the miners' strike". This, in the political context of the unprecedented electoral rise of the BNP and a society paralyzed around fears of immigration?
Yes it's fucking cowardly - and as far as your pseudo-pyschological evaluation of my 'crocodile tears' is concerned, you can shove it up your arse. You can barely cohere your point without contradicting yourself within the space of a sentence, let alone form an anywhere near accurate portrayal of my political motivations.
Never fully grasped why many on the left supported the 'nationalist' side in the N.I conflict because if they had been successful then they would have been condeming people to live under the rules of a state that forbade Abortion, Divorce, allowed the Catholic Church to have a virtual monopoly on state education and which did not have a free at the point of use NHS.
dennisr
the acceptable face
*sigh* As ever you prove you know precisely nothing
Lindsey oil refinery strike - Workers score important victory
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6881
The Socialist Party distributed nearly 1,000 leaflets to strikers on Monday which stated that the strike was not against foreign labour but to stop the race to the bottom and that: "Trade union jobs, pay and conditions for all workers" should be the slogan and not "British jobs for British workers".
The leaflet: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/txt/49.doc
Socialist methods tested
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7272
Deceptive denigration of Lindsey strike
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7160
Lindsey refinery: workers show their strength - Strikes repel attacks on jobs and conditions
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6851
How can the BNP really be defeated?
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/578/7254
Construction workers plan more action
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7020
"It's correct for Derek Simpson to say that: "It is a class issue, not a race issue". But if he then appears in the Daily Star with the British Jobs for British Workers slogan, and fails to lead action to achieve workers' demands, then scapegoating of foreign workers can grow. Disturbingly, a small minority of workers at the front of the march had chanted "Foreigners out!"
The Socialist Party showed how such nationalist moods can be countered during the Lindsey Oil Refinery (LOR) strike and has produced leaflets saying: "Our fight is not against foreign workers, it is with the bosses, the government and EU laws", and placards with slogans like "Stop the race to the bottom", "Don't let the bosses divide us", and "Workers of the world unite", for the Staythorpe/Newark protests."
Youth Fight for Jobs campaign - Good response in Bridgend
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6869
Lessons of the 2004 election
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/571/7071
Why socialists oppose the EU
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/campaign/Election_campaigns/No2EU/7292
"And if workers, and middle class voters, feel powerless, subject to 'market forces' they cannot control, they will be open to ideas of 'putting our country first', 'British interests', or even the slogan of 'British jobs for British workers', unless a viable force can offer a real alternative of workers' solidarity and decisive socialist action against big business."
Firm strike leadership gains results
http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/6852
dennis why can you not be honest and admit that you are a yellow bellyed running dog of imperialism? it is clear that there is no organisation that acts more as a cheerleader for British imperialism within the working class than MT/SP! It is YOUR actions that have condemned the NI catholic working class to the continued hell of the imperialist oppression .. it is YOUR actions that stopped Argentina defeating British imperialism and freeing the enslaved Malvinas! It is your actions that sees poles firebombed from their homes and driven from their construction jobs! It is your actions that force the likes of Bakri to believe that the only solution for the Brotish working class is Sharia and Jihad. Deal with it! I bet you sleep with a Butchers Apron on top of you!
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I take it that was said with your tongue very firmly in your cheek!
Unfortunately militant supported Thatchers war and called it a "war against fascism"
With friends like this the oppressed of the world don't need enemies
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Only if we want a laugh.
dennisr
the acceptable face
don't talk out of your arse idiot
google is your friend if you want to do slander:
http://www.socialismtoday.org/108/falklands.html
And no Miltant cannot seriously be held responsible for the 1926 crash, the fall of rome etc etc etc
We had long discussions with the chief trotskyist group in Argentina not long after the end of the War (we also had - and still have - our own group in Argentina). We agreed to disagree on longer term consolidation of our respective international groupings but still work together after friendly discussions. They were fully aware of our position on the Falklands/Malvinas War. The entrance to the parties hq includes a long list on the wall - a huge carved stone tablet - of those worker and party activists tortured, murdered and disappeared by the very military junta you demanded should be cheerled. it runs into hundreds - this trotskyist grouping are very proud of their comrades - proud of the simple fact that very few talked - actually they say none talked - a very impressive group of serious worker activists. They preferred death to being a traitor to the working class.
For you its easy.
You see I can do rhetoric too...
The difference being - for these worker activists - that it really meant something
Oh, and just to rub it in - the guy who represented the CWI in those discussions is a well-known (in latin america) gay activist. How about 'redundancy notices - you haven't done that one yet... ?
dennisr
the acceptable face
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
All very well and good, but your reading of history is slightly inaccurate. When the British army were sent in to Northern Ireland their remit wasn't to defend the status quo of the Loyalist state.
Do you actually know what their remit was?
I'm sure that if you ask...I don't know....hmmm, just about every other poster on this thread they'll know what the original operation called for, in fact I'm sure some posters could give you the actual wording from Hansard and from standing orders.
More binary simplicity leading to more inaccuracy.
Here's a hint: If you're going to pontificate on a subject, then make sure you know what you're pontificating about.
Oh, and stop misspelling "chauvinism". It only has one "a" in it.
Irony isn't a strong point either.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You forgot to mention him wanking himself off over a picture of Thatcher!
Yep, Militant, friend of imperialism everywhere. Why I remember like it was yesterday Degsy Hatton sending Liverpool council workers to assist in neo-colonial settlement projects in the isle of Man.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So, in your world refusal to agree with your line equates to support of the line you oppose.
You twat.
By the way, any halfway decent 1st-year pol sci student could tell you that the Argentine Junta was, at the least, quasi-fascist in it's politics and in its' mechanisms of repression, but I don't expect that matters to self-righteous ill-informed slogan-chanters such as yourself.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If he mentions the redundancy notices, I bet he'll mention the taxis, too, and (as with all "yellow-media" representations of what happened) he'll mention them out of context as to why taxis were actually used in some cases.
He's a great one for regurgitating slogans and propaganda, is dylans, but he's not too hot with fact, I've noticed.
dennisr
the acceptable face
That squinty thatcher eye followed me across europe. I lived for a while with a lass in germany - she couldn't help having a thatcher eye - it was doomed from the start, sadly
i digress...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Probably thinks irony is something his missus does to his trousers to put creases in them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That squinty thatcher eye followed me across europe. I lived for a while with a lass in germany - she couldn't help having a thatcher eye - it was doomed from the start, sadly
i digress...
See, you're obviously an imperialist oppressor and crypto-fascist; you lived in Germany!!
Oh shit, hold on, that's me fucked too!!
dennisr
the acceptable face
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