Papers, please - covid passport bollocks

[Aladdin]

I mean, I guess the Irish government has put more thought into this than I have, and obviously name and dob can narrow things down a bit, like an 18-year-old with a QR code saying they were born in 1950 is going to raise some eyebrows, but it still sort of seems to me like someone who borrowed a QR code from a mate of a similar age would probably be able to get away with it?

90% of adults here are fully vaccinated. And all over 12s...will be fully vacc by end of the month. So I doubt they would need to bother borrowing it.

 

[Cid]

I mean, I guess the Irish government has put more thought into this than I have, and obviously name and dob can narrow things down a bit, like an 18-year-old with a QR code saying they were born in 1950 is going to raise some eyebrows, but it still sort of seems to me like someone who borrowed a QR code from a mate of a similar age would probably be able to get away with it?

I think the thing here is that it's probably just a bit easier to get vaccinated. The possibility of cheating the system doesn't mean it'll be done on a wide basis, particularly if you make vaccines easy to get... e.g jabs available on uni campuses, at schools etc. In the end all of this comes down to population level statistics, and if you can be fairly sure that your cheater rate is 5-10% or something, then it's still worth doing. I'd be hesitant to end PCR tests as part of travel on that basis, but obviously dunno the actual statistics.

 

[keybored]

I mean, I guess the Irish government has put more thought into this than I have, and obviously name and dob can narrow things down a bit, like an 18-year-old with a QR code saying they were born in 1950 is going to raise some eyebrows, but it still sort of seems to me like someone who borrowed a QR code from a mate of a similar age would probably be able to get away with it?

Doesn't it need to be backed up with photo ID though?

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, hard to imagine there's anyone still wavering but if they are maybe it'll convince them. Admittedly, my "antivaxxers could just borrow a mate's code" plan/objection does rely on hardcore antivaxxers having vaxxed mates who they haven't completely cunted off and would be willing to help them with it, that might well be the hardest part!

 

[hitmouse]

Doesn't it need to be backed up with photo ID though?

Oh, that would make things a bit tighter.

 

[andysays]

Covid passports came in in Ireland weeks ago...
We all got letters with a qr code which is then scanned into the covid app on the phone.
Or the letter can be folded up to fit in a wallet with the qr code showing. Even says how to fold it.

Over here we will need a covid passport for all indoor stuff bar shopping and education.
And outdoor stuff like matches and music festivals etc etc.

This will be the case until the % vaccinated is at its highest. ... and will obvs persist if new variants become dominant and booster vaccines are needed in the months to come.

My main concern is with variants ... ones that might evade the current vaccines.
Not too bothered by a qr code on my phone.

I'm curious about the practicalities of how this works, in terms of actually issuing the "passport" (I'll call it that for convenience's sake).

How did you (or will you if you haven't yet done it) go about proving you've been vaccinated in order to obtain the passport?

I have a small piece of cardboard in my wallet, which has the dates and batch numbers of my two vaccinations.

I've just checked to make sure it's still there, and noticed that my second jab was three months ago, and that some of the writing is becoming a bit faint with age etc.

If people are being expected to produce this bit of card as the proof of vaccination, six months or maybe more after they've actually had it, it seems likely that a significant number of people won't have theirs any longer.

 

[Aladdin]

I'm curious about the practicalities of how this works, in terms of actually issuing the "passport" (I'll call it that for convenience's sake).

How did you (or will you if you haven't yet done it) go about proving you've been vaccinated in order to obtain the passport?

I have a small piece of cardboard in my wallet, which has the dates and batch numbers of my two vaccinations.

I've just checked to make sure it's still there, and noticed that my second jab was three months ago, and that some of the writing is becoming a bit faint with age etc.

If people are being expected to produce this bit of card as the proof of vaccination, six months or maybe more after they've actually had it, it seems likely that a significant number of people won't have theirs any longer.

In my case I was vaccinated by my GP. So that info went to whatever department issued the cert by post to me. Once I got my letter with qr code I opened the Covid app on my phone and scanned my qr code. All my vacc info is now in my covid app.

 

[keybored]

I'm curious about the practicalities of how this works, in terms of actually issuing the "passport" (I'll call it that for convenience's sake).

How did you (or will you if you haven't yet done it) go about proving you've been vaccinated in order to obtain the passport?

I have a small piece of cardboard in my wallet, which has the dates and batch numbers of my two vaccinations.

I've just checked to make sure it's still there, and noticed that my second jab was three months ago, and that some of the writing is becoming a bit faint with age etc.

If people are being expected to produce this bit of card as the proof of vaccination, six months or maybe more after they've actually had it, it seems likely that a significant number of people won't have theirs any longer.

I just logged into the NHS website, did some verifications and it produced a PDF passport (which I can print or keep on phone). I don't use an app.

 

[Cid]

I'm curious about the practicalities of how this works, in terms of actually issuing the "passport" (I'll call it that for convenience's sake).

How did you (or will you if you haven't yet done it) go about proving you've been vaccinated in order to obtain the passport?

I have a small piece of cardboard in my wallet, which has the dates and batch numbers of my two vaccinations.

I've just checked to make sure it's still there, and noticed that my second jab was three months ago, and that some of the writing is becoming a bit faint with age etc.

If people are being expected to produce this bit of card as the proof of vaccination, six months or maybe more after they've actually had it, it seems likely that a significant number of people won't have theirs any longer.

I use the NHS app, just need NHS number and some verification iirc. I think it may have required ID. Didn’t have to go through GP or anything (you have to do that for prescription services). Good to see from above that there are alternatives.

 

[Cid]

I just logged into the NHS website, did some verifications and it produced a PDF passport (which I can print or keep on phone). I don't use an app.

If it’s like the app, I think the hard copy is 30 day time limited. Will just refresh if you do it again.

 

[hitmouse]

I'm curious about the practicalities of how this works, in terms of actually issuing the "passport" (I'll call it that for convenience's sake).

How did you (or will you if you haven't yet done it) go about proving you've been vaccinated in order to obtain the passport?

I have a small piece of cardboard in my wallet, which has the dates and batch numbers of my two vaccinations.

I've just checked to make sure it's still there, and noticed that my second jab was three months ago, and that some of the writing is becoming a bit faint with age etc.

If people are being expected to produce this bit of card as the proof of vaccination, six months or maybe more after they've actually had it, it seems likely that a significant number of people won't have theirs any longer.

Yeah, I downloaded the NHS app - confusingly, the NHS app you need to prove you've been vaccinated is not the same thing as the "NHS Covid-19 app", which as I understand it is not run by the NHS. But glad to see from keybored's post above that there seems to be a non-app option. God I fucking hate apps.

 

[andysays]

In my case I was vaccinated by my GP. So that info went to whatever department issued the cert by post to me. Once I got my letter with qr code I opened the Covid app on my phone and scanned my qr code. All my vacc info is now in my covid app.

So in your case you didn't have to apply, it was issued automatically? That sounds good, if it's possible.

Don't know how it worked in Ireland, but in England there were (at least) two different ways of arranging to have it done, and many people's experiences suggested that the system wasn't that well co-ordinated/joined up.

I booked mine online, but still had a series of texts from my GP telling me I should contact them to arrange it, even some time after I had had the first jab.

Maybe the info has finally made it through the system to confirm to my GP that I have been vaccinated, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that at least some people's records are not updated in time to be issued this passport.

And this points up one of the problems with the approach of having multiple ways to get the vaccine - it may be good at getting more people vaccinated more quickly, but it may also make compilation of records and issuing of passports more difficult.

 

[andysays]

I just logged into the NHS website, did some verifications and it produced a PDF passport (which I can print or keep on phone). I don't use an app.

That's all well and good, but there will be lots of people who, for a variety of reasons, aren't able to go through that process in the way that you and I and everyone reading this thread can.

 

[hitmouse]

So in your case you didn't have to apply, it was issued automatically? That sounds good, if it's possible.

Don't know how it worked in Ireland, but in England there were (at least) two different ways of arranging to have it done, and many people's experiences suggested that the system wasn't that well co-ordinated/joined up.

I booked mine online, but still had a series of texts from my GP telling me I should contact them to arrange it, even some time after I had had the first jab.

Maybe the info has finally made it through the system to confirm to my GP that I have been vaccinated, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that at least some people's records are not updated in time to be issued this passport.

And this points up one of the problems with the approach of having multiple ways to get the vaccine - it may be good at getting more people vaccinated more quickly, but it may also make compilation of records and issuing of passports more difficult.

Yep, I had my first one via appointment and my second at a walk-in, and got loads of texts from my GP asking me to book a second appointment, and then eventually also some texts from the NHS saying "you had your first jab at a walk-in and are now eligible for your second", so I was quite nervous as well, but the app does seem to record my details accurately.

That's all well and good, but there will be lots of people who, for a variety of reasons, aren't able to go through that process in the way that you and I and everyone reading this thread can.

Definitely agreed that how the system deals/copes with those people is one of the most serious potential objections/problems. Not got much sympathy for hardcore antivaxxers, but am a lot more open to the concerns of people who don't have settled migration status, or whatever the term is.

 

[Cid]

So in your case you didn't have to apply, it was issued automatically? That sounds good, if it's possible.

Don't know how it worked in Ireland, but in England there were (at least) two different ways of arranging to have it done, and many people's experiences suggested that the system wasn't that well co-ordinated/joined up.

I booked mine online, but still had a series of texts from my GP telling me I should contact them to arrange it, even some time after I had had the first jab.

Maybe the info has finally made it through the system to confirm to my GP that I have been vaccinated, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that at least some people's records are not updated in time to be issued this passport.

And this points up one of the problems with the approach of having multiple ways to get the vaccine - it may be good at getting more people vaccinated more quickly, but it may also make compilation of records and issuing of passports more difficult.

I think this is just GP records not updating properly/being on different systems. Your actual vaccine status is tied to your NHS number.

 

[cupid_stunt]

So in your case you didn't have to apply, it was issued automatically? That sounds good, if it's possible.

Don't know how it worked in Ireland, but in England there were (at least) two different ways of arranging to have it done, and many people's experiences suggested that the system wasn't that well co-ordinated/joined up.

I booked mine online, but still had a series of texts from my GP telling me I should contact them to arrange it, even some time after I had had the first jab.

Maybe the info has finally made it through the system to confirm to my GP that I have been vaccinated, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that at least some people's records are not updated in time to be issued this passport.

And this points up one of the problems with the approach of having multiple ways to get the vaccine - it may be good at getting more people vaccinated more quickly, but it may also make compilation of records and issuing of passports more difficult.

It shouldn't matter, if you get the jabs at your GP's or via the NHS direct run service, both records your vaccination on your NHS record, assuming you have an NHS number, of course.

 

[andysays]

Definitely agreed that how the system deals/copes with those people is one of the most serious potential objections/problems. Not got much sympathy for hardcore antivaxxers, but am a lot more open to the concerns of people who don't have settled migration status, or whatever the term is.

I was thinking more about the technical process, but you're right; people who don't have settled migration status are also likely to find this problematic.

 

[andysays]

I think this is just GP records not updating properly/being on different systems. Your actual vaccine status is tied to your NHS number.

It shouldn't matter, if you get the jabs at your GP's or via the NHS direct run service, both records your vaccination on your NHS record, assuming you have an NHS number, of course.

But what if you don't have an NHS number, or do but your number was incorrectly entered in a walk-in centre, for instance?

I'm not expecting you to answer that question, just pointing out that there are likely to be many different problems in the issuing process, however exactly it's done.

 

[Cid]

But what if you don't have an NHS number, or do but your number was incorrectly entered in a walk-in centre, for instance?

I'm not expecting you to answer that question, just pointing out that there are likely to be many different problems in the issuing process, however exactly it's done.

Your number is incredibly unlikely to be wrongly entered really... That's why they ask confirmation questions. Yes, it is clearly the case that it's going to leave some people on the margins. But at the moment it does only apply to nightclubs and other large venues, for which you need shit like IDs and ability to book etc already.

 

[tim]

Wow. What the fuck happened to the people of U75?

Papers please for a medical passport and nobody has a problem with it?

They Woke up

 

[tim]

Wow. What the fuck happened to the people of U75?

Papers please for a medical passport and nobody has a problem with it?

They Woke up

 

[andysays]

Your number is incredibly unlikely to be wrongly entered really... That's why they ask confirmation questions. Yes, it is clearly the case that it's going to leave some people on the margins. But at the moment it does only apply to nightclubs and other large venues, for which you need shit like IDs and ability to book etc already.

I booked my vaccinations on line so have no direct experience of the walk in system, but unless it was far more thorough than I've been led to believe (which would negate the idea that anyone, including those without "proper" documentation could just turn up and get jabbed), I think it's inevitable that some people's details will be incomplete or incorrect.

This may not matter too much at the moment, but if vaccine passports become effectively mandatory for more than just nightclubs etc, it will be a significant issue, and a barrier to access for some people who are already likely to be marginalised in a variety of ways.

That isn't, in itself, a reason to abandon the whole idea of vaccine passports, but it is something we should at least acknowledge rather than dismiss or downplay, IMO.

 

[keybored]

If it’s like the app, I think the hard copy is 30 day time limited. Will just refresh if you do it again.

Yes, this is correct.

My verifications were 2FA (via a confirmation code sent to my mobile number) and I also had to grant temp. permission for the site to use my webcam to scan my face. Then got an email back the same day saying I'd passed the checks, logged back into NHS and passport was there.

My partner had to make a short video selfie for some reason.

God I fucking hate apps.

Fuck apps in general, but government outsourced apps in particular.

Edit: Start here NHS COVID Pass - NHS

 

[elbows]

Wow. What the fuck happened to the people of U75?

Papers please for a medical passport and nobody has a problem with it?

All that happened is that unlike you, large numbers of people grasped the magnitude and implications of this pandemic.

And unlike you, they understand that imperfect options can still make some difference, and that 'reducing the chances of catching and transmitting the virus' is still worthwhile, even though vaccines fall short of being 100% effective in that regard.

Its also not the case that nobody with the above grip on the situation has a problem with vaccine certificates. There are a range of opinions here about these things. I have mixed feeling about some aspects, mostly along the lines of whether there will be any counterproductive consequences as a result of these kinds of policies.

Its also not surprising that even when people are not impressed with the very concepts of the nation state and authority, they may spot some some obvious merits when it comes to matters of public health.

 

[elbows]

And since people sometimes compare attitudes towards masks to attitudes about seatbelts, I wonder if vaccine passports can be compared in some ways to driving licenses.

 

[Griff]

And since people sometimes compare attitudes towards masks to attitudes about seatbelts, I wonder if vaccine passports can be compared in some ways to driving licenses.

So not having a driving licence would restrict you from driving, which is of course optional. What would you recommend as far as restrictions for not having a vaccination passport?

Serious question without wanting to get into any rows.

 

[keybored]

So not having a driving licence would restrict you from driving, which is of course optional. What would you recommend as far as restrictions for not having a vaccination passport?

Serious question without wanting to get into any rows.

Foreign travel, or entering crowded spaces like clubs or festivals. Which are also optional.

 

[Griff]

But not crowded public transport? Which for going to work isn't optional.

 

[keybored]

But not crowded public transport? Which for going to work isn't optional.

Much like a driving licence, then.

 

[emanymton]

Just a quick note on the NHS app in case anyone has the same problem I did.

When I tired to register in the app a while ago to test it I could not verify my identity (no driving licence and my passport has expired) without going though my GP. And my GP surgery are completely fucking useless so was not optimistic about getting it sorted at all. But I explored the app a bit and found I did not need to go through that process to get my vaccination certificate (well QR code). The app is totally useless to me for anything else though.

Was a massive relief to to have to deal with my GP surgery.