Papers, please - covid passport bollocks

[Cid]

I booked my vaccinations on line so have no direct experience of the walk in system, but unless it was far more thorough than I've been led to believe (which would negate the idea that anyone, including those without "proper" documentation could just turn up and get jabbed), I think it's inevitable that some people's details will be incomplete or incorrect.

This may not matter too much at the moment, but if vaccine passports become effectively mandatory for more than just nightclubs etc, it will be a significant issue, and a barrier to access for some people who are already likely to be marginalised in a variety of ways.

That isn't, in itself, a reason to abandon the whole idea of vaccine passports, but it is something we should at least acknowledge rather than dismiss or downplay, IMO.

I don't particularly trust the systems or the government to get the balance exactly right... I do trust their attitude to general public acceptance, simply because that ties to popularity etc. It is clearly not something to be taken lightly, but I'm not hugely concerned about measures as they are. It appears to be largely a fairly easy way of getting higher uptake in younger people. I would expect to see alternative methods of identification come in if they were going to do wider rollouts (e.g get issued a QR card), though that would come with some risk of faking, and might mean two standards of entry. I'm not particularly comfortable with any of it, obviously. Shit government, shit opposition. But the alternative is just dramatically worse.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Is nobody concerned that this vaccine ‘passport’ is likely to have its functionality extended to include other private data about you? That we are in effect putting in place the infrastructure to implement a CCP-style social credit system?

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with a portable tracking device that gives the state absolute power to control when and where a person is permitted to be?

 

[emanymton]

Just a quick note on the NHS app in case anyone has the same problem I did.

When I tired to register in the app a while ago to test it I could not verify my identity (no driving licence and my passport has expired) without going though my GP. And my GP surgery are completely fucking useless so was not optimistic about getting it sorted at all. But I explored the app a bit and found I did not need to go through that process to get my vaccination certificate (well QR code). The app is totally useless to me for anything else though.

Was a massive relief to to have to deal with my GP surgery.

Actually just had another look and I noticed that no where does it say what my vaccination status is so I tried scanning the QR code and got nothing so I have no way of knowing if it is accurate or not.

 

[keybored]

Is nobody concerned that this vaccine ‘passport’ is likely to have its functionality extended to include other private data about you? That we are in effect putting in place the infrastructure to implement a CCP-style social credit system?

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with a portable tracking device that gives the state absolute power to control when and where a person is permitted to be?

The covid passport can be as basic as a piece of paper with a 3D barcode containing your name, DOB and vaccination status.

If it's the mobile app on a device you're concerned about... that ship sailed long ago.

 

[Cid]

Actually just had another look and I noticed that no where does it say what my vaccination status is so I tried scanning the QR code and got nothing so I have no way of knowing if it is accurate or not.

If you’re on home it should have your nhs number etc, then beneath that will be an option to go to covid passes.

 

[emanymton]

If you’re on home it should have your nhs number etc, then beneath that will be an option to go to covid passes.

Yeah I can get the pass but the pass is just a QR code. I have no idea what it says. It might say I am unvacinated when in fact I have had both jabs. So I scanned the code and it didn't give me anything so I assume you need a specific app to scan it with to get the details.

 

[emanymton]

Ha also just looked at the PDF copy you can download and it says it expires 13 sep but further down it says it is valid for 30 days from the date of issue (which was today). Just the level of competence we have come to expect.

 

[Cid]

Yeah I can get the pass but the pass is just a QR code. I have no idea what it says. It might say I am unvacinated when in fact I have had both jabs. So I scanned the code and it didn't give me anything so I assume you need a specific app to scan it with to get the details.

Oh right, I’m pretty sure that if the pass is there it is an actual pass. It wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t…

 

[emanymton]

Oh right, I’m pretty sure that if the pass is there it is an actual pass. It wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t…

Could just be my negative test results or something though.

I guess I will just have to hope it is accurate if I ever have to use it.

 

[Cid]

Could just be my negative test results or something though.

I guess I will just have to hope it is accurate if I ever have to use it.

I guess if you’re taking tests regularly that may override the vaccination status bit for domestic entry. Which might explain the expiry date too. No idea though, may say on guidance somewhere.

 

[Cid]

I mean it would clearly make sense for it to do that, given that a positive result even when vaccinated should stop you getting in somewhere. Probably not ideal with lfts, but understandable when dealing with population level restrictions.

 

[emanymton]

I mean it would clearly make sense for it to do that, given that a positive result even when vaccinated should stop you getting in somewhere. Probably not ideal with lfts, but understandable when dealing with population level restrictions.

I think you get a valid pass if you are jabbed or had a negative test recently but don't know if it has to be PCR test or just a LFT. The only PCR test I have had was nearly a year ago. I last submitted a LFT a couple of weeks ago.

But like you said if I get a pass that might mean it is OK. But I don't know. If someone has not been vaccinated and never been tested do the still get a certificate but just with that info?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

So masks and social distancing stuff is not only legally scrapped but people arent bothering at all anyway? Lol get ready for a massive rise in Covid cases. Already happened in Holland, I guess Denmark just likes to think it's different.

Personally I think we are too lax in the UK at the moment. We have the third highest number of cases in the world in the past 2 weeks. Crack on and get more people jabbed, displaying jab status and providing test result within 24 hours to go to any kind of festival or indoor event.

Most of the population are vaccinated.
The passport proved you were either vaccinated or recently tested.
Testing was free and walkin. In numerous places across the country.
Most people were getting tested before work or weekend.
Yeah Denmark is different. I would try and explain how. But it doesn’t translate well to English. Sociale samfund. Constitution.

The fact is, we did the things when asked and it was offered in an organized manner.

 

[Cid]

I think you get a valid pass if you are jabbed or had a negative test recently but don't know if it has to be PCR test or just a LFT. The only PCR test I have had was nearly a year ago. I last submitted a LFT a couple of weeks ago.

But like you said if I get a pass that might mean it is OK. But I don't know. If someone has not been vaccinated and never been tested do the still get a certificate but just with that info?

No, they won’t afaik. The pass is your vaccine record, or recent test record encoded. That’s why it says when it expires etc.

 

[Riklet]

Most of the population are vaccinated.
The passport proved you were either vaccinated or recently tested.
Testing was free and walkin. In numerous places across the country.
Most people were getting tested before work or weekend.
Yeah Denmark is different. I would try and explain how. But it doesn’t translate well to English. Sociale samfund. Constitution.

The fact is, we did the things when asked and it was offered in an organized manner.

Yawn. a million people are getting tested every day here!

See previous -"The Netherlands/Sweden/Norway is so different, we do things in a socially responsible way... bla bla bla smug smug smug" attitude.

What scientific logic and evidence is there to Denmark suddenly having no problems with Delta compared to US/UK/France/Spain/Portugal/Israel/Germany etc etc aside from this delusional snootiness? What mechanisms are there in place to stop increasing spread?

Just like I didnt see the logic in dropping restrictions in the UK when things were getting worse, I don't in Denmark either. Although sure the vaccination rate is very impressive.

 

[MickiQ]

Is nobody concerned that this vaccine ‘passport’ is likely to have its functionality extended to include other private data about you? That we are in effect putting in place the infrastructure to implement a CCP-style social credit system?

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with a portable tracking device that gives the state absolute power to control when and where a person is permitted to be?

They've already got one of those and most people carry them around without a murmur, it's called a mobile phone. Your network provider knows where you are or rather your phone is all the time. It doesn't matter which apps you've got on it.

 

[mwgdrwg]

From what I can tell now, passports are actually bad and increase the spread of covid.

A false sense of security leading to the abandonment of basic measures such as mask wearing and hand sanitisation.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Yawn. a million people are getting tested every day here!

See previous -"The Netherlands/Sweden/Norway is so different, we do things in a socially responsible way... bla bla bla smug smug smug" attitude.

What scientific logic and evidence is there to Denmark suddenly having no problems with Delta compared to US/UK/France/Spain/Portugal/Israel/Germany etc etc aside from this delusional snootiness? What mechanisms are there in place to stop increasing spread?

Just like I didnt see the logic in dropping restrictions in the UK when things were getting worse, I don't in Denmark either. Although sure the vaccination rate is very impressive.

Millions tests a day aye?

Here, dont want the vaccine? Fine. But your work might want a valid corona passport/test. So you can get tested at numerous walk in places for free. They take your NI number, and your phone number and do a pcr test. About 15 minutes later you get your result by text and it updates your passport if you have the app (not mandatory - just easier) showing your status as green for 48 hours - and provides a downloadable pdf certificate if you dont want the app or you dont have a smart phone.
If you are fully vaccinated, it is green always. Although fully vaccinated myself, I must admit I get the occasional test just to be sure (I don't want to be THAT guy in the office).
One thing causing some consternation in society is the recommendation of isolation for the whole family for a couple of days and some negative tests if your child has been in close contact with another child who has been infected. My friends son caused them all to be off work/school as he had played ping pong with a friend who turned out to be infected. Despite them already having it back in March.

The approach here was very hit and miss at the beginning. Having huge queues at the border with sweden as the police were checking passports but thats just the usual reactionary Danish racism, they would have had our jewellry if they could have.

Interestingly, as I travel on a British passport when I have met police on the border, they are not concerned about the British and the delta variant but whether or not Im attempting to enter the country to claim benefits because of Brexit.
Im no fan of the government in power here in DK, but they did alright with what they had. We had a fucking miserable lockdown all winter, but by and large, those restrictions seemed to have paid off.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I am suspicious of this happening in September (or at all) tbh.

Join the club.

I think Johnson spotted the massive uptick in people booking jab appointments, following Macron announcing similar in France, and thought, 'I'll play that card', with no actual plan/intentions in place to carry it out.

Oh, what a surprise...

Sajid Javid, the health secretary, has announced the government has dropped plans for domestic vaccine passports for use in large venues such as nightclubs.

“We will not be going ahead with vaccine passports,” Mr Javid said on Sunday morning.

He announced it on the Marr show.

Government to introduce charges for Covid tests

Catch up on Saturday’s developments

www.independent.co.uk

 

[xenon]

Absolute shocker, who could have predicted...

Only surprising is they have dropped the idea before bunging a few billion to Capita or the like, before concluding it doesn't work and oh dear never mind.

 

[nogojones]

Absolute shocker, who could have predicted...

Only surprising is they have dropped the idea before bunging a few billion to Capita or the like, before concluding it doesn't work and oh dear never mind.

I'm sure there's been a good bit of "consultancy fees" spent already

 

[mwgdrwg]

Got a covid pass for a gig last week. Trying to get another pass this week and I have to "prove my identity" by sending a scan of my passport or driving license.

What if you have neither of those things?

Stops the poor people enjoying themselves I suppose.

 

[xenon]

I can’t remember what I said on this before so,, hypocritical. But I actually think this is a bollocks idea. especially since the vaccines do not prevent transmission. Yes they reduce it but notprevent it. and yep, there are plenty of people who do not have photo ID.

 

[xenon]

I mean it is not going to happen in England, for the time being. But I still think it is shit for the rest of the UK.

 

[MickiQ]

Got a covid pass for a gig last week. Trying to get another pass this week and I have to "prove my identity" by sending a scan of my passport or driving license.

What if you have neither of those things?

Stops the poor people enjoying themselves I suppose.

Download the NHS App (not the Covid checker) and you can generate as many covid passes as you want whenever you want

 

[mwgdrwg]

I managed to see a skip button on the PC and generate one. They're going to ask for ID again in 72 hours or something.

 

[elbows]

Look how far Italy have gone with this sort of thing!

Covid: Italy to require all workers to show 'green pass' certificate

New rules mean workers must show they are vaccinated, have tested negative, or recovered from Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

Italy is to make it compulsory for all workers to have a Covid "green pass" - proof of vaccination, a negative test or recovery from the virus.

The measures are a first for Europe and some of the strictest in the world.

Anyone without a pass will reportedly face suspension from work and may have their pay stopped after five days.

It even includes the self-employed.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

After how badly they were hit at the start of all this, who can blame them?

 

[hitmouse]

I mean it is not going to happen in England, for the time being. But I still think it is shit for the rest of the UK.

Tbh, it might not be happening on the same scale as Italy, but it is still definitely happening for large-scale events at the moment, I'd be very surprised to hear there were any big events going on that didn't require it.

Anyway, bit of Unison/care/vaccine stuff (wasn't sure whether to put it here or in the main care thread, but here makes sense I think):

Scrap mandatory vaccine deadline or risk decimating the care sector, says UNISON | News, Press release | News | UNISON National

Christina McAnea warns of 'catastrophic' staffing crisis unless government abandons draconian policy

www.unison.org.uk

Welcome! You are invited to join a meeting: Mandatory Vaccinations in Social Care: A Trade Union Response. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the meeting.

Featuring: Professor Lydia Hayes – Head of Kent Law School Dr Emma Runswick – British Medical Association Council Member Gavin Edwards- UNISON National Officer Steve North (Chair)- UNISON North West Deputy Regional Convenor It is now the law that from 11th November 2021, CQC-registered care...

zoom.us

It is now the law that from 11th November 2021, CQC-registered care homes in England must only allow individuals who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 (or exempt) entry into their premises. This requirement will also apply to those visiting a care home in a professional capacity unless exempt.

UNISON supports vaccination. We recognise that thousands of lives have been saved by the COVID vaccine and we encourage all members to have the vaccination.

However, we oppose the mandation of vaccines because we see this as a counter-productive method of encouraging vaccination, as well as another stick to drive away low-paid care workers from an already under-staffed social care sector.

Please come to this meeting to hear how we intend to support our members in care and what branches can do to help.

UNISON members and all social care and support workers are welcome. Meeting will be held on zoom- please register to receive the link.

Time
Sep 22, 2021 06:00 PM

 

[Plumdaff]

I managed to see a skip button on the PC and generate one. They're going to ask for ID again in 72 hours or something.

Have you ever logged a test online? If yes, the account you generated to do that will work for your covid pass. Don't download the app it doesn't work for us in Wales.