Papers, please - covid passport bollocks
- Thread starter mwgdrwg
- Start date
Covid passprts to appear in September just in time for lockdown. But then maybe that was intentional; that way Boris sounds like he's announcing something responsible without actually having to do it.
No that doesn't really make sense.
No that doesn't really make sense.
Riklet
procrastinación
Doesnt sound like it'll be as strict as say... France though, right?
Showing health status or providing some kind of digital contact details in order to go into crowded clubs and big busy indoor bars/pubs... sure it's problematic, but if they are going to allow these places to open and be at capacity... not any easy alternative imo.
Will be amazed if the gov can get this through without major handbags and drama though...
Showing health status or providing some kind of digital contact details in order to go into crowded clubs and big busy indoor bars/pubs... sure it's problematic, but if they are going to allow these places to open and be at capacity... not any easy alternative imo.
Will be amazed if the gov can get this through without major handbags and drama though...
Last edited:
dessiato
🇪🇸 españa te quiero
Mrs D has her certificate. It was easy to get, downloaded from the official site, printed it and have a copy on her phone of the QR code. Can't see what all the fuss is about. It works easily and very simply here, why not there? (I'm still waiting, impatiently, for my second)
magneze
🎧
It's the same here. It's more enforcement of where it's required to show it that's going to be the issue.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I am suspicious of this happening in September (or at all) tbh.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Join the club.
I think Johnson spotted the massive uptick in people booking jab appointments, following Macron announcing similar in France, and thought, 'I'll play that card', with no actual plan/intentions in place to carry it out.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
What's the issue with it being September? The argument is that's when all over 18s have been offered the chance to have a jab, and doing it before then would be more unfair.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Where have you got that from?
They will need to get it through parliament first, and that's looking very unlikely ATM.
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
Announced by Nadhim Zahawi apparently. Yes it will have to be passed, but it is what they intend to do.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Just because that's when they've announced it for - a period far enough in advance that they might assume everyone will forget if they don't do it, but without any obvious roadmap for getting it done within that time. Also it's in the face of quite serious internal opposition (the only type they care about) at a time when there's clearly a lot of conflict anyway.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
So, he basically just repeated what Johnson announced on Monday.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Ah, see what you mean, I wasn't sure from what you said earlier.
It's one of those things that on some level they don't need to get it done, we do if we want to use it to access things though. I can't see it passing through parliament tbh, unless things get much worse with a new variant or we go back into lockdown with steeply rising numbers.
It'll be a fight in the Tory party between the people that will give up some of their resistance to it for the sake of keeping bits of the economy running, or those that think 'civil liberties' are more important.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I am treating the announcements of this stuff and actually doing it as two different things.
Because in terms of policy objectives, the first aim is to see if they can get the vaccination uptake rates to improve in younger age groups. They probably arent overjoyed about some of our figures, looked at what Macron did in France and decided to get in on that action.
Im trying to avoid most of the other politics of the matter at this stage, and wont form an impression of how likely this policy is to actually go ahead until I see how well its worked as a threatening stick.
Because in terms of policy objectives, the first aim is to see if they can get the vaccination uptake rates to improve in younger age groups. They probably arent overjoyed about some of our figures, looked at what Macron did in France and decided to get in on that action.
Im trying to avoid most of the other politics of the matter at this stage, and wont form an impression of how likely this policy is to actually go ahead until I see how well its worked as a threatening stick.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It does fit in with two big themes of government messaging:
1. Vaccines vaccines vaccines;
2. Everything is the fault of people selfishly not doing what they should, we said be responsible, you just didn't, it would all have been fine otherwise, now look what we have to do, this hurts me more than it hurts you etc. (ETA: in this case, particularly, clubs being an easily-condemned "selfish"/"sybaritic"/"unnecessary" activity that the Tory voter base isn't likely to be sympathetic with.)
1. Vaccines vaccines vaccines;
2. Everything is the fault of people selfishly not doing what they should, we said be responsible, you just didn't, it would all have been fine otherwise, now look what we have to do, this hurts me more than it hurts you etc. (ETA: in this case, particularly, clubs being an easily-condemned "selfish"/"sybaritic"/"unnecessary" activity that the Tory voter base isn't likely to be sympathetic with.)
Last edited:
elbows
Well-Known Member
All governments messaging includes a huge chunk about peoples behaviour because of course it should. Behaviour drives the waves.
It doesnt work as a simple blame game & excuse for governments anyway because if behaviour leads to a bad wave, the government still get the blame for encouraging or allowing the wrong behaviours.
And so I feel compelled to make this point almost every time someone brings the blame game up. It doesnt work, and every time people here have been expecting it in the past, it hasnt turned out that way at all.
It doesnt work as a simple blame game & excuse for governments anyway because if behaviour leads to a bad wave, the government still get the blame for encouraging or allowing the wrong behaviours.
And so I feel compelled to make this point almost every time someone brings the blame game up. It doesnt work, and every time people here have been expecting it in the past, it hasnt turned out that way at all.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Just seen a clip of it, he said, 'the government reserves the right to mandate [covid passports]', so just hot-air.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Apparently, 43 Tory MPs have already announced they would vote against covid passports, together with Lab & LDs.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
To eat indoors here in Portugal, Friday night and all weekend you are required to show the digital vaccine app or a certificate of two vaccines or take a test in front of staff . No big uproar .
Riklet
procrastinación
Crack on I say. Maybe best to make it a paper vaccine passport to avoid all the digital privacy issues malarky.
There are def privacy issues. But in general I think it makes sense. No one has a "right" to go to a restaurant, cafe, cinema, gym, on a foreign holiday etc. Regular testing is going to be a thing for everyone for months to come. If antivaxxers dont want the jab they should expect to have to regularly prove their status.
IMO a minority will dig their heels in but a big chunk of the 18-35s who havent bothered to get vaccinated (40% ish!) will be doing it if it makes life easier.
There are def privacy issues. But in general I think it makes sense. No one has a "right" to go to a restaurant, cafe, cinema, gym, on a foreign holiday etc. Regular testing is going to be a thing for everyone for months to come. If antivaxxers dont want the jab they should expect to have to regularly prove their status.
IMO a minority will dig their heels in but a big chunk of the 18-35s who havent bothered to get vaccinated (40% ish!) will be doing it if it makes life easier.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There are a bunch of vaccine related debates that I really havent got my teeth into yet or taken a particular stance on because I am waiting to see whether attitudes shift a bit as the scale and implications of the problem become apparent. I dont have a timescale in mind but I suppose we are moving into a period where some aspects are just starting to become clear. eg the mainstream started acknowledging that actually the uptake in younger age groups was more complicated than the initial momentum-building stories of 'Glastonbury-like demand' wanted to dwell on at the time.
Peoples sense of the implications may be tied to what the current wave ends up looking like. Its already been large and disruptive enough that issues of being pinged and self-isolation might become potent when attached to vaccines.
Peoples sense of the implications may be tied to what the current wave ends up looking like. Its already been large and disruptive enough that issues of being pinged and self-isolation might become potent when attached to vaccines.
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
As someone who will for the forseeable future be legally obliged to have booster shots of covid and bog knows what else in future, by virtue of the work I do, I have perhaps less sympathy for objectors to this potential measure, than I might have had in the past. Than I would have had in the past.
The whole idea sucks, thin end of a very nasty wedge IMO as I've said before. I don't approve of any of this. But here we go anyway.
The whole idea sucks, thin end of a very nasty wedge IMO as I've said before. I don't approve of any of this. But here we go anyway.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Isn't a large part of that 40% because they weren't actually eligible for the vaccine rather than that they haven't bothered?
Riklet
procrastinación
No. Been eligible since 18 June, 40% no first jab is def worrying. Sure some young people are pretty hopeless and wont have a GP or know how to book (and some others may need proper support with the process) but honestly for tech-savvy younguns the whole thing is a piece of piss, 5 minute job on your phone... and on top of that there are walk in centres now to get pfizer/moderna pretty regularly even if you're not registered etc.
I think the yoot need a bit of incentivising. One of my friends on facebook didnt bother booking immediately and left it... then got covid (delta) and has had a really rough time of it for weeks and weeks, dont think she's recovered yet even. It's for people's own good.
Last edited:
l'Otters
.
I've had 2 vaccines but I'd rather do a test than carry some kind of vaccine passport or certificate. Not up for the intrusion of privacy. I opposed ID cards in previous decades for good reason.
On a personal level it's largely irrelevant, there's no way I'd be going near a nightclub for a long long time. Not that keen on pubs either...not the point tho.
On a personal level it's largely irrelevant, there's no way I'd be going near a nightclub for a long long time. Not that keen on pubs either...not the point tho.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I assumed the 40% was for both jabs, because you haven't provided a source.
Similar threads
