#occupy London....
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TruXta
tired
The fuck are you on about? I was involved in the environmental movement in the early 90s, I know that it was pretty fucking marginal before that.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Of course YOU know, because you weren't there, and it wasn't until YOU got involved that other people really started to notice.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Not that I can see. I use a secure connection (https). Do you?
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Michael Moore on Newsnight last night: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9619110.stm
Some stats: 50 million people in US without any access to healthcare; 46.2 million living in poverty - 13-18 million kids going to bed every night malnourished.
Some stats: 50 million people in US without any access to healthcare; 46.2 million living in poverty - 13-18 million kids going to bed every night malnourished.
TruXta
tired
I know because I WASN'T there? Riiiiiight.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
What the OccupyWallStreet movement is about + data behind the movement: http://imgur.com/a/U4FR4
This series of graphs is a MUST to view
This series of graphs is a MUST to view
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Hmmmm...judging by the dominant ideas on the Facebook group I really don't know if I can find much common ground with them to make it worthwhile. Do you know if any other wobs are going? If there was enough sound people going I would go.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
I don't know about wobs, but I know that quite a few of the uni students that I've been doing ukuncut and other things with are coming down. I'll be there and I'm sure Kerry will be, again she's not a wob but she is a decent anarchist from what I can tell.
I wouldn't be surprised if one or two other wobs turned up, either today or saturday.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
That arsehole who posted the protocols is back in the Facebook group. Lots more stuff on there about "roths" and Zionists, even freemasons ffs.
I can't find any common cause with that. Anyone promoting the protocols should be persona non grata.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
fucksake I didn't see him get added back in, just had to scroll so far down.
I saw the person posting about NWO/masons but getting told it wasn't part of this by some and that the occupy movement is not the truther movement, and even the sympathetic ones saying people aren't ready for this you'll just chase them off. Perhaps I've got an opposite confirmation bias going on..
Not sure what to do now, I can't see him posting directly about zionism again though he does say he's not going to mention it for fear of being called racist... there was a post he made a while back that I didn't see on something that got bumped but I didn't respond to it cos I thought he'd fucked off having been made unwelcome. I don't think there is much point responding on the facebook group about it.
I think what I'm going to to is go to the GA and raise it there, make it quite clear that I cannot be part of a group that will allow racist conspiracy theories as part of the group and see how the discussion goes. If there is not a concensus to ban people who have promoted the protocols etc. then I will no longer be part of the thing in any form.
I saw the person posting about NWO/masons but getting told it wasn't part of this by some and that the occupy movement is not the truther movement, and even the sympathetic ones saying people aren't ready for this you'll just chase them off. Perhaps I've got an opposite confirmation bias going on..
Not sure what to do now, I can't see him posting directly about zionism again though he does say he's not going to mention it for fear of being called racist... there was a post he made a while back that I didn't see on something that got bumped but I didn't respond to it cos I thought he'd fucked off having been made unwelcome. I don't think there is much point responding on the facebook group about it.
I think what I'm going to to is go to the GA and raise it there, make it quite clear that I cannot be part of a group that will allow racist conspiracy theories as part of the group and see how the discussion goes. If there is not a concensus to ban people who have promoted the protocols etc. then I will no longer be part of the thing in any form.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
get to it then
dennisr
the acceptable face
Which is why you should go along fella - the majority of other folk there will also appreciate what you are warning about because you are there in real life
Treacle Toes
Time
I urge everyone to at least go down to their local occupy group and join in with the GA at least once. The movement will only be as diverse as the people who get involved/make their voices heard.
I was impressed with the way the LSX is trying to organise themselves and be as inclusive as possible. I sat in on the process group meeting before the GA last night and they really are trying to make this thing work.
I was impressed with the way the LSX is trying to organise themselves and be as inclusive as possible. I sat in on the process group meeting before the GA last night and they really are trying to make this thing work.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
I think you got banned from the facebook group because your language/grammar implied that everyone there supported racist/conspiraloon/fascist/fotl ideas, and most (who obv. didn't) took offence at that.
Perhaps you could adjust your approach, because you're doing exactly that here - smearing all involved as promoting fascist ideas when the reality was it was a tiny number.
You'll probably need to take a more educative line.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
SPLC produced a 'Top Ten Patriot Conspiracy Theories' brief: http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform.../browse-all-issues/2010/fall/patriot-paranoia
Perhaps that could be printed off and taken down with you. SPLC have a very good reputation. It goes into the Chemtrail thing, and briefly touches on the NWO conspiracy theory.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
The majority of folk there won't want the movement undermined by crackpot conspiracy theories which in the US right now, are being used by 'the 1%' undermine and smear the Occupy Movement.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I disagree with you here. I briefly joined that group and immediately announced I was leaving after the protocols of zion thing. I did that mainly because I could see that the arguments were being put and I figured that acting like the shocked newby who was put off was the best way to demonstrate the dangers of what was being pointed out rather than another new face just joining the argument.
I lurked a bit after that and I saw the exchange between who I am guessing was blagsta and bigtom and some of the others and I thought they did their best to be reasonable in the face of a pretty blind attitudes on there. In particular the line seemed to be that all discussion or attempts to raise the question of racism was itself divisive and therefore that those raising these issues were the cause of the conflict. "Don't even talk about it, live and let live, lets all get along, I don't care about this issue etc seemed to be the general view of a lot of people there.
I don't think the main problem is that reactionary attitudes are by any means the majority view and I agree it is a handful, rather the problem is that the majority view seems to be that issues such as anti semitism etc are not important or that they are less important than the magical "unity at any price" mantra. And precisely because it doesn't view anti racism as an important first principle they are opening themselves up for the racists and the lunatics to get a hold for their views. This is related to the kind of "we are not political" or we are "above left and right" kind of argument that seems common with these groups.
Blagsta (again i am guessing it was him) had to put up with a lot of abuse including being blamed for causing all the conflict, being called a troll, several mysterious bannings, being told he was not allowed to join the new group and so on. Even accused of being a CIA plant at one point.
In retrospect perhaps I should have stuck around and had the argument but as I said I figured a demonstration of just how they were putting people off was the best thing to do. I'm not very impressed with that group to say the least. Its tiny, very marginal, has some very odd people in it and doesn't look like it is goinng anywhere. That said, I will try and go along on saturday ( I have real problems getting out because of child minding difficulties but will bring my kid) and give it another try, I guess I owe it that
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
No, that's not what happened. Initially I was very diplomatic and ignored the conspiracy theory stuff. It was only when someone mentioned the "Rothschild Zionists", I responded with "stop the anti-sem.itism please". I then went on to explain that it was a rehash of the old ZOG trope, I then got banned. I did not "smear" anyone and I am not doing so here. It does worry me that the dominant ideas expressed are about the Rothschilds and Zionists as this is exactly the kind of crap that fascists come out with. The dominant people on that Facebook group are truthers, this is not a smear, so please refrain from smearing *me* with your accusation.
Treacle Toes
Time
I take it people are discussing the Occupy Brum group here?
My concern is that the issues with that group could be confused with what's going on in London.
That said, I can see why people are worried about what seem to be the dominant ideas circulating in the Brum group.
I still think there is value in going down in person though, the impression I had of the London group was greatly enriched by getting involved in the GA. I am not sure the 'internet' interactions are doing the London camp justice.
My concern is that the issues with that group could be confused with what's going on in London.
That said, I can see why people are worried about what seem to be the dominant ideas circulating in the Brum group.
I still think there is value in going down in person though, the impression I had of the London group was greatly enriched by getting involved in the GA. I am not sure the 'internet' interactions are doing the London camp justice.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Here's another excellent article on far-right conspiracy theorists that could be useful to print off before you head down there ...
http://www.irehr.org/issue-areas/race-racism-and-white-nationalism/item/376-who-is-alex-jonesWho is Alex Jones? said:
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
They're not the dominant ideas though. You're doing it again.
Again - plenty of resources out there to post up - from places that are trustworthy.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
They don't know what they stand for so like dylans says, they have this wooly inclusivty that anything goes and they don't see why I made a fuss. That is a problem.
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
So did anyone take a screenie of the now disappeared Protocols discussion?
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Just give them the tools to enable them to make the discrimination. That's what I'm doing there. That's what I will continue to do.
Just now (ish) someone posted up the chainmail letter from the late 90s about the criminality of US congress that had been adapted for the UK (wrongly, I might add). I posted up the snopes explanation http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp , and they saw then that the data was unreliable and fuzzy, and took down their original post- very reasonable, no problem. What I did not do was insult that person for believing it - it's quite believable and to some extent it's true, but it's also the type of thing that can be used to bring down the movement, so quite rightly it was necessary to counter that.
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