Noam Chomsky: 9-11: Institutional Analysis vs. Conspiracy Theory
- Thread starter Kid_Eternity
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ska invita
back on the other side
Yes, Noam is irght regarding issues that can be proven by civil engineers, but I dont think a civil engineer can prove that the Bush admn had credible information that the attacks were to take place and deliberately sat on their hands about them.
There are a number of subtle allegations that are always going to be near impossible to prove/disprove.
The idea that the state allows and promotes such conspiracies is a farcical statement, and rightly pointed out as the worst kind of conspiracy mumblings - the public support for 9/11 conspiracy has its own momentum, with clebrities getting on board, etc., 9/11 was a huge event for Americans and they cant stop talking and thinking about it, hence the exposure.
There are lots of grey areas in the 9/11 story and I for one remain scepticle. Just one example - why won't the Bush admin release the video they say they have of the Pentagon impact, and put that conspiracy to rest?
Noam is right to keep his crewdibility and stay away from grey areas - pleanty of cocnrete fact to keep up his good name. Shit sticks. because Noam is distancing himself from this doesnt mean that all is rosy in 9/11 accounts....
There are a number of subtle allegations that are always going to be near impossible to prove/disprove.
The idea that the state allows and promotes such conspiracies is a farcical statement, and rightly pointed out as the worst kind of conspiracy mumblings - the public support for 9/11 conspiracy has its own momentum, with clebrities getting on board, etc., 9/11 was a huge event for Americans and they cant stop talking and thinking about it, hence the exposure.
There are lots of grey areas in the 9/11 story and I for one remain scepticle. Just one example - why won't the Bush admin release the video they say they have of the Pentagon impact, and put that conspiracy to rest?
Noam is right to keep his crewdibility and stay away from grey areas - pleanty of cocnrete fact to keep up his good name. Shit sticks. because Noam is distancing himself from this doesnt mean that all is rosy in 9/11 accounts....
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Jazzz said:Oh, Noam has spoken! Good that's over with, we can all go home
When Jones or Rense speak they speak from their arse. Noam has nailed the conspiraloons good and proper. Though we already knew you were barking and, in many ways, doing the state's work for them by providing silly distractions like "holographic planes flying into the twin towers".
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I think it's fair to say that those who spout on with assertive knowledge gained from searching the internet pages of known anti-semites are not using a scientific process to analyse evidence - it's more of a faith based practice.
So to me, watching some conspiranoid twat trying to convince people that 9/11 was a black ops act of sacrifice to benefit the Bush administration is a lot like watching some poor obsessive little Jehovah's Witness trying to convince Mrs Tiggins from Number 56 to sign over her life savings...
And similarly, Jehovah's Witnesses have that air of imperviousness, unwilling to listen to critical viewpoints and look at the evidence, just smiling passively in the hope that they are projecting some form of inner contentment with which to show the intended convert of the Truth.
So to me, watching some conspiranoid twat trying to convince people that 9/11 was a black ops act of sacrifice to benefit the Bush administration is a lot like watching some poor obsessive little Jehovah's Witness trying to convince Mrs Tiggins from Number 56 to sign over her life savings...
And similarly, Jehovah's Witnesses have that air of imperviousness, unwilling to listen to critical viewpoints and look at the evidence, just smiling passively in the hope that they are projecting some form of inner contentment with which to show the intended convert of the Truth.
The state does seem to have promoted wacky theories in the past - there were some murky goings on with the CIA promoting Little Green Men through organisations like NICAP to distract attention from their own flying-saucer-like projects.
Mostly though, this kind of conspiracy theorizing is like a kind of armchair substitute for political activity - you've given up on actually changing anything politically in the face of the apparently overwhelming power of state and corporate interests, but you nevertheless think that by finding out 'the Truth' about important events, and perhaps spreading it to other people, you can still somehow affect things.
Mostly though, this kind of conspiracy theorizing is like a kind of armchair substitute for political activity - you've given up on actually changing anything politically in the face of the apparently overwhelming power of state and corporate interests, but you nevertheless think that by finding out 'the Truth' about important events, and perhaps spreading it to other people, you can still somehow affect things.
Noam indulges in a straw man and fails to recognise that the 9/11 Truth Movement is not saying that it knows exactly what happened, only that there is a lot to be suspicious of and that the proper investigation has not occurred. Whatever he says about civil engineers. 'We' can't go and examine the evidence because they won't allow it.
I have lost some respect for him.
Given that 9/11 is such an utterly major event forming a backdrop to everything else that's going on, I find his dismissal of the issue as minor pretty extraordinary.
I have lost some respect for him.
Given that 9/11 is such an utterly major event forming a backdrop to everything else that's going on, I find his dismissal of the issue as minor pretty extraordinary.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Quel truth?
That thread was several years ago - it was just me then. And didn't you ridicule me for it. Now, there's millions of us. You should have archived it.editor said:This from the blazing hypocrite who once posted up a barking load of conspiraloon tosh entitled, "9/11 Here's how they did it" along with a never-ending string of other emphatic, evidence-free, fruitloop claims regurgitated from barking 'truth-seeker' sites.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Jazzz said:
He's not dismissing 9/11 - that's YOUR attempt at constructing a strawman.
He's dismissing all the "evidence" your beloved Truth Movement are supposed to have provided to support your wacky theories.
He's saying quite clearly that your "truth" movement have come up with jack shit in terms of proper evidence.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
pk said:
Course there is, Jazzz. And the Queen is actually a reptile.
He's clearly talking about the voices in his head.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Belushi said:
editor
hiraethified
Er, if you'd be subjected to the same individuals endlessly, nay compulsively, posting up the same intelligence-insulting, fruitloop drivel week after week after week, you might get a tad frustrated too.DJ Bigga said:But I didn't realise this was the kind of place where people gang up to name call and ridicule people who have different views from their own.
I'm not going to let urban be abused and manipulated by the 'truth movement.'
PS Who's 'ganging up' here anyway? It's just people expressing their opinion.
editor said:
I'm not suggesting you should, what I'm questioning is all the name calling and bullying that blatently goes on (and i'm not accusing you here). I would have thought it easier to bin/ban/ those causing offense rather than the insults i see going on here.
I only mention it because I see it as a blight on an otherwise great community.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Jazzz said:
He's not dismissing 9/11 in itself as "minor", he's describing the importance of yout "truth" movement's activities in the grand scheme of things as "minor". I agree with him.
Nice attempt at patronisation from someone known for calling people "sheep!" when they laugh at your outlandish theories of missile pods and holograms.
You were implying that Chomsky regarded 9/11 as "minor" in order to divert attention from the fact that he is perfectly correct in his theory, that far from putting pressure on the illegal activities of government agents, you are in fact assisting them by murkying the waters under the misguided banner of "truth".
Deep down I think you know this, which is why you were trying to paint him as someone who disregards 9/11 completely - a strawman, in other words.
In other words - Rumsfeld loves twats like you who spout clearly bullshit theories about lizards and holograms all over the net, in the face of overwhelming evidence to prove that your theories are:
a) impossible
b) ridiculous.
It hides his real agenda, you see.
I can't be bothered to explain why, but I think you know.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
DJ Bigga said:
I'm sorry but this is blame the victime bollox. The conspiraloons get everything they deserve because of their relentess trolling, lies, derails on perfectly good threads. They try to poison the atmosphere here with their insane "views" and I don't see why they should be tolerated.
They've destroyed any good will they may once have had (certainly amongst the longer term posters and the ever suffering Mods) and have brought this attitude upon themselves.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Because you're obviously more qualified to assess steel behaviour under stress than actual qualified civil engineers?Jazzz said:
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Have we got any proof that this was actually the 'real' Noam Chomsky saying this? Have you ever heard Jon Culshaw's impression of Noam? Hmmm?
SneakyMonkey
questionable methods
Wow - where is Azrael23 when you need him?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
DJ Bigga said:So fair enough you guys don't buy it and neither do I. But I didn't realise this was the kind of place where people gang up to name call and ridicule people who have different views from their own.
Mate - have a look at the character assassination that went on toward Badger Kitten, a survivor of the 7/7 attacks, by the "truth" movement, just because her accounts of events didn't fit in with their dubious agenda.
Then judge for yourself who is really ganging up here.
Seriously dude, it's been going on for years... it's like the head of the hydra - cut one off and seven more appear in their place.
I love it when they get banned though, it's like flushing the toilet after a luxurious and satisfying crap.
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