kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
That's because it's a freak show.
My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding
- Thread starter cliche guevara
- Start date
That's because it's a freak show.
Last night's really annoyed me. Made out like they were going to give some kind of insight into the life of a traveller woman and really it just showed us what we've already seen in the program so far. In the process of painting this "oh, traveller women are second class citizens" picture the program completely failed to actually give the women a voice.
This is a series stemming from a one-off last year iirc, and I now don't really know why they need to make a series of it when they're just showing the same shit over and over. It's doing my head in a bit actually because it's not even showing a variety of different travellers and gypsies, and is probably just creating more stereotypes and negativity for them. I mean, it hasn't actually touched on simple things as their values, because it is just all assumptions and none of the travellers have spoken explicitly about the values in their culture. We hear about the old fashioned values but this is just assumption based on the fact that there are house-wives and no sex before marriage.
Pil;e of wank.
This is a series stemming from a one-off last year iirc, and I now don't really know why they need to make a series of it when they're just showing the same shit over and over. It's doing my head in a bit actually because it's not even showing a variety of different travellers and gypsies, and is probably just creating more stereotypes and negativity for them. I mean, it hasn't actually touched on simple things as their values, because it is just all assumptions and none of the travellers have spoken explicitly about the values in their culture. We hear about the old fashioned values but this is just assumption based on the fact that there are house-wives and no sex before marriage.
Pil;e of wank.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
True, but much of Channel 4's 'documentary' output is freak show tv. This one particularly has gotten massive ratings unlike any other.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
How long does it take to clean a modern caravan anyway? You're done in half an hour surely.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Yes, the are certainly reinforcing stereotypes, I really hoped they'd show something that would challenge those views instead, but I guess that doesn't make for good viewing! No wonder some of them refused to take part. Probably the ones who understand which aspect would be picked on.
But some of those things, they do really happen!!! The girl being taken out of school, that certainly wasn't made up or taken out of context.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Just like Big Brother then.
I would have liked to have heard the girls views on being 'grabbed' which was curiously absent.
I want to know whether they tried to but the girls were afraid to critise an element of gypsy culture openly for fear of reprisals.
Or because the girls stating openly that it was horrible and invasive would escalate the issue more than the producers wanted. Seeing as they are trying to make it all a fun poke at another culture. When its far from a fun poke really.
Yeah they still happen but I still don't feel in any position to be able to form an opinion on gypsie/traveller culture/way of life based on it.
It was interesting when the traveller lad was asked if he thought the girls enjoyed being grabbed and he said no, he couldn't imagine they would. I wanted then to know why he still did it. Obviously we're unlikely to get some kind of full explanation but I'd like to delve a little bit deeper iyswim? The kid said about grabbing not being understood etc, and I just wanted to know his actual thoughts and feelings about it. Not "oh it's just the way it is", because actually a lot of the young travellers they talk to seem intelligent enough to be able to think about it a little more than that.
I dunno. It could be that the program makers did try to do that and they couldn't because everyone was secretive. I don't think so though.
It was interesting when the traveller lad was asked if he thought the girls enjoyed being grabbed and he said no, he couldn't imagine they would. I wanted then to know why he still did it. Obviously we're unlikely to get some kind of full explanation but I'd like to delve a little bit deeper iyswim? The kid said about grabbing not being understood etc, and I just wanted to know his actual thoughts and feelings about it. Not "oh it's just the way it is", because actually a lot of the young travellers they talk to seem intelligent enough to be able to think about it a little more than that.
I dunno. It could be that the program makers did try to do that and they couldn't because everyone was secretive. I don't think so though.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Can i point out that the women weren't the only ones missing out on education and choice. All the boys at the paintballing couldn't read either.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
How do they manage to have drivers licenses with no reading or writing skills?
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Because he can. He's doing what anyone given license to behave in pretty much whatever way they please would do.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
That was kind of covered earlier when the boys stated earlier that if a guy went to that fair and didn't try a grab then its considered that there is something wrong with you. I guessed they were implying that everyone would think you were gay if you didn't do a grab.
That would be an interesting thing to explore. How homosexuality is treated in these comunities. Quite badly I'm guessing.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Praps they don't.
Or they pay someone to take the test for them.
Or they undertake the test in special conditions the same way that people with dyslexia do.
Someone must have to teach them the highway code verbally i guess but aside from that you don't need to know how to read to drive. Road signs are pictorial after all.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
If the are leaving school at 12 they will have basic reading/writing skills - at least enough to get a driving license, I should imagine. The schooling system isn't that bad, seriously!
Then how come schools are missing their literacy targets?
Almost one in five seven-year-olds in England did not reach government targets for literacy last year.
Griff
Feeding the foxes
What the levels of cleanliness they leave sites in? Yeah, that hasn't been covered.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/research/nlt_research/2364_literacy_state_of_the_nation
"The number of children achieving the expected levels for reading at age eleven increased from 78% in 1999 to 86% in 2009"
But also:
One in six people in the UK struggle with literacy. This means their literacy is below the level expected of an eleven year old (I assume these people went to school before intervening measures were introduced?)
So plenty of room for improvement!
Still, to pass a driving test, you need to be able to read road signs and answer multiple choice questions, no need to be able to write at an advanced level, and basic reading skills should be enough.
And also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
All the gypsies at my school left when they were 12/13, boys and girls. Girls to the cleaning, boys to the tarmac/scrap.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
I know quite a few - four of my marina neighbours are from Irish traveller families (which in itself is unusual) - the marina was built on the site of a travellers site. I think they guessed if they got boats they'd be left alone alot more. They're right. They all smoke weed and drink and one is divorced.
Oh and my ex husband is half Roma gypsy.
I've not seen the show, BTW so I can't comment, only that it sounds like a freakshow.
Treacle Toes
Time
I very much tried to keep an open mind but the 'grabbing' tipped me over the edge.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Yep me too. Up to this weeks episode I had a very open mind...I found this weeks episode quite distressing to watch.
pennimania
still dre and drooling
And me - and my grandfather (who I nerver met) was a traveller.
It seems to me that all these young women get is a silly big dress and a tacky cake - not even a very nice reception - not that I care about stuff like that. I don't believe they want to be 'princess for a day' but none dare say otherwise
otherwise they are drudges and not even that happy with it tbh. I want to know why the mothers (who are mostly still quite young) can't look after their own children? Why are the 12 year old daughters having to do it? What are the mothers doing?
I would rather be hung, drawn and quartered than have my girl go down that path
men will always take the line of least resistance. Why should they not? It's up to the older women imo to get a grip.
That's the thing that baffled me.
If you are sixteen when you get wed, you've spent the last four years cleaning your parents' trailer and looking after your siblings. Then you get the big frock, a WHOLE DAY OFF from doing your mother's work then it's home to home to your own trailer, hoping your first born is a girl - followed by at least another four or five girls - so you know you've only got 12 more years before you can palm off all your cleaning and child rearing onto that first poor child.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
We were also wondering where the mother was. 
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
There's an interview here on Daybreak (sorry) with Jake Bowers from Travellers Times website who's not happy with the way the Irish Traveller / Roma Gypsy thing has been confused in this show.
http://www.itv.com/daybreak/entertainment/tv/gypsyweddings/
http://www.itv.com/daybreak/entertainment/tv/gypsyweddings/
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
How do gypsies pass their driving test?
So most of em cant read or write.
and the theory is 40 questions that are written down about driving.
and there's loads of pikeys driving transits.
So most of em cant read or write.
and the theory is 40 questions that are written down about driving.
and there's loads of pikeys driving transits.
Serotonin
history of all hitherto existing society is BLANK?
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Sorry, I meant to reply to this, just to say that's messed up too
But even so, the boys seem to have a lot more freedom than the girls. Even if the freedom is limited to drinking, doing manual labour, going out...I still think that taking away their education is the biggest crime of all
Ok, schools aren't perfect, but no school at all is an injustice to their future. If they educate their children, they might be able to represent themselves and defent their rights more effectively, for starters.e2a: But as more of them are moving into 'normal housing', I wonder if more are being kept in school? They are being forced to abandon their traditional way of life to become more like 'conventional citizens', and we are being shown what very little there is left. Somehow, that doesn't also strike me as being a great thing...
On a previous programme someone described how difficult it was for them to adapt to indoor living, that their way of living outdoors, as part of a very close community, was something they treasured and were very sad to lose.
I know its a freak show; as I said last week, we are the Victorians starring at Hottentots and exclaiming about how odd they are.
However, I can put in as many caveats about editing and stereotyping as would please even the most ardent liberal on here, but Im another one who found last night's episode a profoundly distressing watch.
Had this show been following Afghan or rural Pakistani girls who were being deliberately denied an education in order to keep them reliant on their fathers and husbands, let alone facing the kind of beatings and abuse talked about last night-
there would be less hedging regarding language and less of the cultural relativism.
However, I can put in as many caveats about editing and stereotyping as would please even the most ardent liberal on here, but Im another one who found last night's episode a profoundly distressing watch.
Had this show been following Afghan or rural Pakistani girls who were being deliberately denied an education in order to keep them reliant on their fathers and husbands, let alone facing the kind of beatings and abuse talked about last night-
there would be less hedging regarding language and less of the cultural relativism.
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