moslems in the uk

[james_walsh]

Eh? You call PM fixation a debate? I never said anything of the like, just that i'm not obsessed with followers of Islam (nor do I view them as one big lump as implied often on here and elsewhere) like some people (both on here and elsewhere) are. I do wonder how many people who have "views" on them have actual direct and personal experience of them?

Well i went to school with about 600 moslems(out of 1200 pupils),. I've lived in an area(the council electorial ward) with is near to 50% moslem for over 20 years and i've worked with a few. And i,ve one friend whos a moslem and theres quite a few in my street that im on hello terms with.Also in politics i've meet quite a few people from moslem backgrounds. I'd say that a reasonable amount of personnel expeirence.

But what was your point anyhow?

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm actually curious what the purpose of this thread is. The only thing I can deduce is some kind of link between Shia/Sunni Muslims here and elsewhere (ie what effect those overseas lives will have on communities here) but i'm not sure if PM really wants to understand the varying types of people, backgrounds, nationalities and ethnicities that make up the Muslim population in the UK...

not right now - just the proportions of sunni & shi'ite.

 

[redsquirrel]

Eh? You call PM fixation a debate? I never said anything of the like, just that i'm not obsessed with followers of Islam (nor do I view them as one big lump as implied often on here and elsewhere) like some people (both on here and elsewhere) are. I do wonder how many people who have "views" on them have actual direct and personal experience of them?

You a right little creep aren't you. Your constant accusations of racism (which you don't even have the guts to make explicit in this case) are pretty shitty and just shut down the debate. Why don't you treat this thread like the OBV ones and piss off.

 

[james_walsh]

My mate is a Sunny muslim and he told me that all Shiites are wankers, my other mate shes a Shia Muslim and she told me that all Sunnis are wankers. And this is while all three of us were sat in a three over rice curry shop in Bolton town centre. We were in a Mosque in Bolton a few months ago and my mate who is a Shia muslim had a row with the immam because he told her a good muslim woman should have her face covered, she was spittin I tell the!!

So to answer your question Pickmans their from Bolton!!!!

I good moslem womans face, is in her union!

Theres a slogan for swpers(don't say i don't try and help you).

 

[james_walsh]

You a right little creep aren't you. Your constant accusations of racism (which you don't even have the guts to make explicit in this case) are pretty shitty and just shut down the debate. Why don't you treat this thread like the OBV ones and piss off.

Well said.
That was his point.

 

[redsquirrel]

nor do I view them as one big lump as implied often on here and elsewhere)

Ha Ha, says the man who works for Operation Black Vote.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

I never think of that nor do I wonder which branch of christianity or judaism or hinduism etc etc about people. Maybe cos I'm an athiest

KoD

 

[ViolentPanda]

If I remember rightly four said they were Sunni. Two said they were Shia. One didn't appear to know or care and one claimed to be some other type but I can't remember what. I've got to say none of them seemed particularly passionate about being part of one group and disliking the other ...

The "some other type" would have been Sufi or Ishmaili.

 

[rednblack]

I never think of that nor do I wonder which branch of christianity or judaism or hinduism etc etc about people. Maybe cos I'm an athiest

KoD

so you have no curiosity about other cultures then?

 

[rednblack]

anyway from what i remember 94% of british muslims are sunni, 5% are shia, and 1% are other, predominantly ismaili, with a few others thrown in.

a related question, are sufis a sect of sunni or a different thing altogether i can't remember...

 

[tollbar]

My knowledge of the various currents in Islam is not great, but I read somewhere recently, that a big percentage of moslems in britain were Sunni, but inclined towards Sufism.

 

[detective-boy]

The "some other type" would have been Sufi or Ishmaili.

Now you remind me, Ishmaili sounds like the one ...

 

[tollbar]

Now you remind me, Ishmaili sounds like the one ...

Ishmaili is the sect headed by the Agha khan is it not ?.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Presumably the majority of UK muslims are of Pakistani decent and therefore sunni?
Iranians are mainly Shia, as are Iraqis, but North African muslims are almost exclusively Sunni I think.

But as far as immigration goes we must have many times more Pakistani immigrants than any other nationalty.

 

[peppery]

are they mainly sunni or shia or what?

Why don't you use google you lazy fuck

 

[mellowmoose]

over 90% of muslims in the UK are sunni. Sunni and shia's are the two main branches.

The fundamental differences is that Shia'ism has a well defined clerical hierarchy which overrides the teaching of the Quran (the direct word of allah ) and the sunnah (the teachings of the prophet muhammad) whereas there is no official clerical structure amongst sunni's.

Ishmaili's are a branch of Shia muslims.

The majority of Shia's are Iranians and the global percentage of shia to sunni is also something like 90-95% sunni and about 5% shia.

The new puppet regime in Iraq is almost entirely bieng composed of Shia muslims.

 

[mellowmoose]

But as far as immigration goes we must have many times more Pakistani immigrants than any other nationalty.

The percentage of Indian muslims is quite high too, not sure how it compare with Pakistani muslims. The vast majority of arab & african muslims in the UK are also Sunni.

 

[audiotech]

I remember some time ago speaking to a Geordie lass who had been converted to Islam, she described herself as a 'Shia' and when I mentioned the name of someone, she replied 'huh, a Sunni', as though they were not as good as the denomination she belonged to.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ishmaili is the sect headed by the Agha khan is it not ?.

Yep, except it's A-G-A, like the stoves.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ishmaili's are a branch of Shia muslims.

You forgot to insert the word "heretical" between "a" and "branch".

There's also the fact that orthodox Shia and Sunni both have *ahem* "extreme dislike" for Ishmailis that historically occasionally brought down pogroms on the Ishmailis.

 

[KeeperofDragons]

so you have no curiosity about other cultures then?

I do have curiosity I just do not happen to think in terms of religon that's all

KoD

 

[peppery]

You forgot to insert the word "heretical" between "a" and "branch".

There's also the fact that orthodox Shia and Sunni both have *ahem* "extreme dislike" for Ishmailis that historically occasionally brought down pogroms on the Ishmailis.

Its ironic the Shia's doing that to the Ismaili's

 

[rednblack]

I do have curiosity I just do not happen to think in terms of religon that's all

KoD

some of us believe that learning about other religions helps to teach understanding and tolerance of other's beliefs

 

[ViolentPanda]

Its ironic the Shia's doing that to the Ismaili's

Agreed, same as it's quite sad the way that both the Sunni and Shia have very little time for Sufism and its overt mysticism, and occasionally have cooperated to violently supress it.

 

[hipipol]

Sufis were/are drawn almost exclusively from The Party Of Ali (Shia)
The Mullah Nasrudin, a Sufi Saint/example has been used for centuries in Iran not just as a Sufi teaching device but to teach children - hardly reeks of Shia suppresion
By the way Abdus Salaam, Pakistans only Nobel Laureate was an Ismaili who moved to Italy, via Imperial College in order to escape persecution. He is not mentioned with pride on any Pakistani Govt website

 

[KeeperofDragons]

some of us believe that learning about other religions helps to teach understanding and tolerance of other's beliefs

religon can come into it - just not the first thing I ask someone about, mind you as one of my hobbies is calligraphy I tend to look into the art side of culture

Saying that my school was teaching about all religons so I have learned a fair bit one of which is that Islam is not only shia or sunni.

KoD

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I note that the British Census stats never look at the issue. To be fair, they don't give details on protestant/catholic divisions either. I suspect this is them choosing to withold the information rather than them not having it...

Not true - Scotland and Northern Ireland have different systems of data collection to England and Wales that splits protestant and catholic. There is also extensive monitoring of churches for employment and other purposes in Northern Ireland.

No split between Shia and Sunni that I know of though.

Neat summary at:
http://www.nisra.gov.uk/census/metadata/religion.html

 

[Bob_the_lost]

some of us believe that learning about other religions helps to teach understanding and tolerance of other's beliefs

Some of us think that it's best to ignore it and let them do what they want untill they too realise it's a load of shite.

May well be a smaller group though.

 

[mellowmoose]

Some of us think that it's best to ignore it and let them do what they want untill they too realise it's a load of shite.

or untill u realise that yr attitude is a load of old shite

 

[mellowmoose]

... it's quite sad the way that both the Sunni and Shia have very little time for Sufism and its overt mysticism, and occasionally have cooperated to violently supress it.

Sadly many are unaware that msyticism, meditation and the exploration of compassion etc is a integral part of mainstream Islam.

Muslims view sufism as an ideology which is practiced in seperation to the whole. The Islamic philosphy nuetered of its political, social, economic and judicial constructs.

Also, the close relationship and support of sufism by both past and present imperial powers has created a great deal of suspicion in the muslim world, whether this is justifiable or not, i simply do not know.