Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[Dan U]

What does it mean when a politician says:

"I take complete responsibility for that ... "

square root of fuck all

 

[Dan U]

It's a pretty big story here in Aus, probably partly due to the relatively large number of ex-pats, but mostly because Murdoch's enemies are taking any chance they're given to attack him.

There's been quite a big scrap between Fairfax and NI over a number of years and it's especially warm at the moment

yeah i figured that was in play. There has always been a certain snobbishness towards Murdoch too iirc

i'll be asking my Mother in Law at the weekend what she thinks of it all (avid Herald Sun reader)

 

[Kanda]

From Twitter:

Have confirmed staff at NotW can't access external websites on work computers. One said to me:"We're being treated like criminals".

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

What does it mean when a politician says:

"I take complete responsibility for that ... "

if his lips are moving, he's probably lying.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

He was told about it 6 months ago or he was hacked 6 months ago - how long has he been retired?

Actually that article is bollocks isn't it. It says nothing about timescale, intentionally.

Yeah, sorry about that - should've read it fully first.

These links may be a bit more useful: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-live-coverage?INTCMP=SRCH#block-64 and http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jul/07/news-of-the-world-phone-hacking-live-coverage?INTCMP=SRCH#block-62 (sorry, couldn't copy direct from the site page for some reason).

 

[killer b]

The convictions.

why does that make you think they stopped?

 

[ericjarvis]

YOUR judgement? Because you personally don't approve of a particular company or product, you'd throw people out of work.

Yeah. Why not? It's OK for an employer, it's OK for the rest of us. Especially as in our case it's just having an opinion and not actually sacking somebody.

What's your point? That individuals who don't have vast amounts of money or serious power over others don't have any right to an opinion, whereas people in a position to really screw up other people's lives can have an opinion and act on it?

 

[London_Calling]

Yeah, sorry about that - should've read it fully first.

These links may be a bit more useful:

Your point is, contrary to what I suggested, there is evidence of hacking since 2006 - I'm happy to accept it if you can cite it.

Fwiw, it might be - although I'm told the culture changed with the editorship and convictions. But, atm, we only have Mulcaire's papers from 2006, as best I understand.

In the meantime The Guardian, among others, are happy to be unclear as to when people were told they were hacked, and the actual hacking.

 

[8den]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/vid...hone-hacking-nick-davies-rupert-murdoch-video

A 10 minute video by Nick Davis of the Guardian explaining the significance of the story.

It's a really good recap, and explores the ramifications of what has happened.

 

[sheothebudworths]

I thought there were some references in the last couple of days to likely hacking about six months ago. Can't find them for the moment though.

Similarly, I read *somewhere* that some of the soldier hackings were as recent as last year/within the last year.

 

[dylans]

No need to cry, but nor is there any reason to celebrate. Yeah, my sympathy is limited and I'll certainly be campaigning harder for any one person made redundant by my local council than for this wapping lot, but it's still a shitter for them - the large majority of whom haven't written anything more bigotted or reactionary than you'd get on any other newspaper.

'They fucked us first, so fuck them' is understandable, but its not really helpful.

In regards your point about Notts pit closures. There is no reason to celebrate the closure of a pit. I agree. Even if my sympathy is limited. There is nothing positive in the aftermath of a closed mine. However is there reason to celebrate the end of the News of the World? Is the country a better place for it closing? Absolutely. It was a vile and hateful propaganda sheet for my enemies and as such the world is better for its demise. It's closure is revenge for every person attacked or vilified or hounded or demonised by that stinking rag and for that there is every reason to celebrate.

 

[London_Calling]

Similarly, I read *somewhere* that some of the soldier hackings were as recent as last year/within the last year.

Well, the UK has obv. been in Iraq and Afghanistan for a decade. Again, it suits some to blur the distinction between when people were told they'd been hacked, and when it actually happened.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Your point is, contrary to what I suggested, there is evidence of hacking since 2006 - I'm happy to accept it if you can cite it.

Fwiw, it might be - although I'm told the culture changed with the editship and convictions. But, atm, we only have Mulcaire's papers from 2006, as best I understand.

I think in my original posting on this I mentioned that the Met said Mansfield may well have been hacked i.e. not 100% proven. I take your point that it would be very odd for someone to hack his phone in such recent times. If (and indeed, if) he has been hacked by someone on behalf of journos, that's terrible enough, but if that hypothetical if also turns out to include a pretty solid link to NI (a rather long shot, to be sure), then...well....we shall see though if this turns into nowt or this there's any proper meat on the bones.

 

[Shreddy]

Again Murdoch's US opponents aren't going to miss this oppurtunity to make hay.

I think it has more to do with the big boss, denial, and the fact that Sarah Palin/Glenn Beck think 'phone hacking' is part of that country called Africa

 

[ericjarvis]

That's bullshit, though. If you are a journalist at the News of the World, you've planned a career to get there, and you can, imo, be held responsible for the bile you produce.

When I left college there were a number of career options open to me. That included going into journalism. I took a careful look at what it would entail and decided that in moral terms it was pretty much on a par with the other option I completely discarded, working in the nuclear industry.

Yes it would be lovely to be a campaigning John Pilger, Duncan Campbell, type of journalist. By 1979 it was already clear that there were going to be pretty much no opportunities to become one whilst getting paid for it. You have the choice whether or not to get your hands dirty when you are young and relatively uncommitted. Once you've made the choice then that's it.

 

[marty21]

From Twitter:

seems very amateurish of the management there to block the internet, it's almost as if they aren't aware that you can access it from most mobile phones these days - are they going to get the staff to lock their phones away?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

seems very amateurish of the management there to block the internet, it's almost as if they aren't aware that you can access it from most mobile phones these days - are they going to get the staff to lock their phones away?

Dunno about everyone else, but it used to be a rule here that using a mobile here during work time for any reason at all got you a disciplinary, so I'm not too surprised to hear about this.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Yeah. Why not? It's OK for an employer, it's OK for the rest of us. Especially as in our case it's just having an opinion and not actually sacking somebody.

What's your point? That individuals who don't have vast amounts of money or serious power over others don't have any right to an opinion, whereas people in a position to really screw up other people's lives can have an opinion and act on it?

Elizabeth doesn't have a point anymore than she has a birth certificate.

Louis MacNeice

 

[killer b]

bizarre. it turns out brooks is a governer at the wife's old school. they're standing by her.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Well, the UK has obv. been in Iraq and Afghanistan for a decade. Again, it suits some to blur the distinction between when people were told they'd been hacked, and when it actually happened.

Yeah, I understand the point. That wasn't the case in the particular report I'm referring too though, afair, but of course I can't find it now just lots of references to relatives of soldiers/crime victims etc killed more recently asking whether they have been victims, which is obviously not the same thing.

 

[ymu]

That's not really comparable. I'm not talking about the way its workers are treated. I'm talking about the stories it publishes, how it gets them and what they say.

There is nothing morally wrong about the taste of coca-cola.

You unwittingly reveal your true priorities a lot lbj, and this is one of those times.

For shame.

 

[ViolentPanda]

and they will announce the launch with a brand new Sunday newspaper with exactly the same staff and editor and exactly the same content

That, or the closure is an attempt to draw a line under the entire issue. Gesture politics of the worst sort because we know that the other NI titles are also in this up to their necks.

 

[frogwoman]

@ lbj - someone might say that by working for coca-cola, however low-paid and mundane your job is, you're indirectly helping to take part in the destruction of rainforests, chemical poisoning, etc etc that company takes part in ...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You unwittingly reveal your true priorities a lot lbj, and this is one of those times.

For shame.

Bullshit. I'm just not a liberal handwringer who patronises people they consider more stupid than them and thinks people shouldn't be held accountable for the choices they make in the context of the choices available to them.

 

[London_Calling]

*coughs*

 

[marty21]

haven't been checking the news today - but I'm guessing Cameron was weak at his news conference this morning - not totally backing the sack Brooks movement, and not entirely distancing himself from Coulson? Did he admit to bad judement?

this is seriously damaging Cameron, and he was warned before he took Coulson on, I think even the Guardian editor warned him off him, telling him there were more revelations to come.

 

[killer b]

i've been drinking barr cola lately, despite being a lifelong coke drinker. it's actually quite nice.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

@ lbj - someone might say that by working for coca-cola, however low-paid and mundane your job is, you're indirectly helping to take part in the destruction of rainforests, chemical poisoning, etc etc that company takes part in ...

I've addressed this, many times. People can only be held accountable for the choices they make in the face of the choices available to them. And only by their peers, at that - only someone in lletsa's position: left school at 16 with few or no qualifications and with the choice of the dole or an arms factory, could comment on his choice. But by fuck, we can judge upwards, we can judge those more fortunate than ourselves and the choices they make.

 

[Ted Striker]

No need to cry, but nor is there any reason to celebrate. Yeah, my sympathy is limited and I'll certainly be campaigning harder for any one person made redundant by my local council than for this wapping lot, but it's still a shitter for them - the large majority of whom haven't written anything more bigotted or reactionary than you'd get on any other newspaper.

'They fucked us first, so fuck them' is understandable, but its not really helpful.

I regret the individuals that now have to look for alternative work, though if you look at the demise against the paper as a step in the right direction away from the awful excuse of celeb gossip, bare faced lies, subtle hounding of minority groups, and everything else the paper (really) stood for, then if you decide to take the coin of such a publication that has such a culture, then, whilst you are not asking to be held accountable for every editorial move or decision that paper does, nor approce individually of the people running the paper, your tenancy in that role will be at risk from events like yesterday.

As it stands, I have not seen ONE person pipe up with any level or remorse or even a hint that they think outside their individual universe where the arsehole culture seems to be endemic. It enrages me. If they get caught or get brought up on any of their nonsense they act dumb and have no defence other than "free press/speech" line. It's pathetic, and if the break in the chain that the NotW signifies a damage to this exact culture, then I will welcome it with such open arms that the collateral damage of innocent employees may get lost, in the safe knowledge that if this change does occur, then the trade will be better for it in the long run.

As I said earlier, a few frinds of my GF's worked for the Fabulous magazine, and it's difficult not to feel sympathy for them (though apparently this will be kept on elsewhere in NI)

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

haven't been checking the news today - but I'm guessing Cameron was weak at his news conference this morning - not totally backing the sack Brooks movement, and not entirely distancing himself from Coulson? Did he admit to bad judement?

this is seriously damaging Cameron, and he was warned before he took Coulson on, I think even the Guardian editor warned him off him, telling him there were more revelations to come.

he sounded genuinely rattled, he repeated over and over that he'd given coulson a "second chance" but that it hadn't worked out, he dodged questions relating to his own judgement and whether he spoke to coulson as to the possibility that there was any truth in what was being alleged, i think he's in a very difficult position from his performance.