Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[littlebabyjesus]

It is good that horrible newspapers should close down. It is good that arms factories should close down. It is good that cigarette factories should close down. As a society, I would want those who lose their jobs in such circumstances to be given every help in getting another job where they are actually doing good, but it would be wrong of me to say that I wasn't pleased that they were no longer doing the jobs they were doing if my judgement is that those jobs were making the world a worse place.

But my sympathy is limited towards those who were actively promoting the bad things that the particular workplace was doing, and had actively worked to get there as a career goal. I'll feel sorry for the worker on the factory floor assembling the bombs, but not for the people who go out and about selling them, or even for the engineers who innovate and invent new, more deadly bombs. These are people who have had choices in their lives, and who can be held to account for the particular choices they have made.

 

[redsquirrel]

that's also true and why i have sort of mixed feelings on this! i don't think they're all scum though

It's a bit like when non-union colleagues come to me moaning about how they've been treated badly, I sympathise with them of course I do, but part of me does think - well where were you when we we taking industrial action to get a better deal for all staff.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

It is good that horrible newspapers should close down. It is good that arms factories should close down. It is good that cigarette factories should close down. As a society, I would want those who lose their jobs in such circumstances to be given every help in getting another job where they are actually doing good, but it would be wrong of me to say that I wasn't pleased that they were no longer doing the jobs they were doing if my judgement is that those jobs were making the world a worse place.

YOUR judgement? Because you personally don't approve of a particular company or product, you'd throw people out of work.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

YOUR judgement? Because you personally don't approve of a particular company or product, you'd throw people out of work.

I can't use anybody else's judgement.

 

[Bakunin]

if you want to work in newspapers there aren't that many options and Murdoch was a big employer for people trying to break into the industry.

Which is rather like saying a pimp does wonders for female employment opportunities, IMHO.

 

[Kizmet]

Which is rather like saying a pimp does wonders for female employment opportunities, IMHO.

Then your HO is BS.

 

[smokedout]

It is good that horrible newspapers should close down. It is good that arms factories should close down. It is good that cigarette factories should close down. As a society, I would want those who lose their jobs in such circumstances to be given every help in getting another job where they are actually doing good, but it would be wrong of me to say that I wasn't pleased that they were no longer doing the jobs they were doing if my judgement is that those jobs were making the world a worse place.

what do you do for a living jesus?

 

[Santino]

Clive Goodman has been arrested again.

 

[Idris2002]

No one (apart from the occasional low-level scapegoat) is going to do time for this, because the extent of rot and corruption is so great it has taken the British establishment into 'appalling vista' territory. And we know what they do when faced with a choice of allowing injustice to continue, or combat the injustice and thereby expose themselves to the embarassment that will arise from acknowledging the existence of the appalling vista and their own place in it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

what do you do for a living jesus?

This isn't about me. If you think it is, you've not understood what I've been saying.

But arguing that NOTW journos were just honest workers trying to earn a crust is ridiculous, imo. And I'll leave the matter there.

 

[London_Calling]

Look, lets be clear. A lot of what the Murdoch press does is important work - in terms of the role of the fourth estate as a watchdog on executive excess. It is important work and there needs to be competition between who does that role on behalf of the democracy.

What isn't acceptable is corruption, intimidation, and propagating a culture of fear. They went way, way to far in the simple sense we all understand of 'power corrupts...'.

Seemingly that ended at NotW 4-5 years ago. That doesn't mean those repsonsible then shouldn't be held to account now, but there is a vital constitutional issue here and it serves no one to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't mind Murdoch owning a Rottweiler, or even two - I'd even support it. But that's enough...

 

[MellySingsDoom]

YOUR judgement? Because you personally don't approve of a particular company or product, you'd throw people out of work.

I can see what you're getting at here, but remember the Dirty Digger threw 6,000 people out of a job because he didn't "approve" of them.

Swings and roundabouts, innit?

 

[Badgers]

you'd throw people out of work.

They will be fine, all they need to do is sign on and get loads of free money:

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/notw/news/907438/Work-Not-on-45K-benefits.html

 

[Citizen66]

Oh, and it's blindingly obvious that Elizabeth of York is not a troll, s/he's an astro-turfer - paid or unpaid, s/he's not here to chat shit or provoke people, s/he's here to push a party line.

My money is on the Tax Avoiders' Alliance.

 

[killer b]

Seemingly that ended at NotW 4-5 years ago.

whatever makes you think that?

 

[London_Calling]

The convictions.

 

[Dan U]

The Age in Australia is going quite big on this story (it's not owned by Murdoch)

it's reporting the Greens in the Aus Govt are using this to try and block a Murdoch bid for some TV news.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/m...-scandal-could-hit-tv-bid-20110707-1h4x3.html

I haven't checked The Herald Sun yet (Murdoch owned hybrid of the Sun/Mail, but i am guessing they won't say much..)

 

[Santino]

The convictions.

I thought there were some references in the last couple of days to likely hacking about six months ago. Can't find them for the moment though.

 

[London_Calling]

I did say 'seemingly' because that's the indication I have. It may have continued - in residual form it's probably even likely - but the leadership of that culture reigned way back with the appointment of the current Editor. As Best I Understand.

Of course, atm, all that's happening is based on Mulcaire's papers from 2006.

 

[Shreddy]

Interesting side note from this side of the pond...

This story is fucking massive over here, full on cross media...

Except for Fox News. They're not touching it. Go figure

 

[MellySingsDoom]

I thought there were some references in the last couple of days to likely hacking about six months ago. Can't find them for the moment though.

That's right, it was Michael Mansfield QC who's been told by the Met that his phone may well have been hacked around 6 months ago - link to report is here

 

[redsquirrel]

The Age in Australia is going quite big on this story (it's not owned by Murdoch)

it's reporting the Greens in the Aus Govt are using this to try and block a Murdoch bid for some TV news.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/m...-scandal-could-hit-tv-bid-20110707-1h4x3.html

I haven't checked The Herald yet (Murdoch owned hybrid of the Sun/Mail, but i am guessing they won't say much..)

It's a pretty big story here in Aus, probably partly due to the relatively large number of ex-pats, but mostly because Murdoch's enemies are taking any chance they're given to attack him.

There's been quite a big scrap between Fairfax and NI over a number of years and it's especially warm at the moment

 

[belboid]

I think there is some poetic justice in the Notts pits getting shut down yeah, Nottingham scabbing was one of the key reasons for the failure of the strike and they soon learned the price of their loyalty to Thatcher. The failure of solidarity isn't in not caring about the Nottingham pit closures, it is in the mass scabbing that betrayed the strike and ultimately themselves, Tough shit, I don't cry for scabs

No need to cry, but nor is there any reason to celebrate. Yeah, my sympathy is limited and I'll certainly be campaigning harder for any one person made redundant by my local council than for this wapping lot, but it's still a shitter for them - the large majority of whom haven't written anything more bigotted or reactionary than you'd get on any other newspaper.

'They fucked us first, so fuck them' is understandable, but its not really helpful.

 

[Citizen66]

the 'they're all scum who print the sub' argument was used against printworkers in 85, and it was bullshit then. And it wasn't the NUJ who scabbed on the strike (the some members did) it was the EETPU.

Or Unite as they are currently known as.

 

[London_Calling]

That's right, it was Michael Mansfield QC who's been told by the Met that his phone may well have been hacked around 6 months ago - link to report is here

He was told about it 6 months ago or he was hacked 6 months ago - how long has he been retired?

Actually that article is bollocks isn't it. It says nothing about timescale, intentionally.

 

[belboid]

Or Unite as they are currently known as.

well, the EETPU section of the AEU section of the Amicus section, of Unite.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Roy Greenslade's piece from yesterday is worth reading.

Soon after Rupert Murdoch acquired the News of the World in 1969 he sacked its editor, Stafford Somerfield, and joked afterwards: "He was too nasty even for me." Now he has sacked the newspaper because, though this time he isn't joking, it had become too nasty – even for him.

Closing a newspaper that is still profitable and still the market leader, selling more than 2.6m copies every Sunday, is a breathtaking and unprecedented act.

Murdoch's loyalty to her [Brooke] is entirely misplaced. While she remains as News International's chief executive, the stench of phone hacking will remain hanging over his organisation. Indeed, in closing the News of the World, he may attract yet greater odium.

When he and his executives talked about taking the axe to the title, it must have sounded like a great ploy. They must have imagined it to be a surefire wheeze to ensure that the insipid culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, would deliver BSkyB into News Corp's hands. It may still do that, but it has not salvaged the tarnished reputations of Rupert and James Murdoch and their company

Perhaps the old News of the World, and its reputation as the amusing, unsleazy bad boy of British journalism, is best summed up by an anecdote about one of its veteran reporters, Peter Earle, a man who always wore a bowler hat and looked as if he had stepped from a stockbrokers' office. He once arrived on a woman's doorstep, tipped his hat and said: "I'm from the News of the World."

She asked: "Can you prove it?"

Spreading his hands in mock despair, Earle replied: "But madam, I've already admitted it."

 

[redsquirrel]

Interesting side note from this side of the pond...

This story is fucking massive over here, full on cross media...

Except for Fox News. They're not touching it. Go figure

Again Murdoch's US opponents aren't going to miss this oppurtunity to make hay.

 

[claphamboy]

The Age in Australia is going quite big on this story (it's not owned by Murdoch)

it's reporting the Greens in the Aus Govt are using this to try and block a Murdoch bid for some TV news.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/m...-scandal-could-hit-tv-bid-20110707-1h4x3.html

I haven't checked The Herald Sun yet (Murdoch owned hybrid of the Sun/Mail, but i am guessing they won't say much..)

And the poll question is...

Should Rupert Murdoch's Sky News be allowed to run Australia's overseas television service?

Yes - 10%
No - 90%

 

[weltweit]

What does it mean when a politician says:

"I take complete responsibility for that ... "