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Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

ymu said:
Oh, and it's blindingly obvious that Elizabeth of York is not a troll, s/he's an astro-turfer - paid or unpaid, s/he's not here to chat shit or provoke people, s/he's here to push a party line. It's very, very obvious from the inconsistencies in views between threads.

I think s/he's useful to bring out arguments and evidence that would normally be taken as read, but there's really no point to mindless abuse, it just makes the counter-argument look as weak and pathetic as the propaganda line. IMO, obv.

S/he's a very useful idiot, so make best possible use of her/him, yeah?
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Oh piss off. What inconsistencies? What "party line"? Just because I don't have black & white views about the world doesn't mean I'm an astro-turfer, whatever the hell that means.
 
ymu said:
Oh, and it's blindingly obvious that Elizabeth of York is not a troll, s/he's an astro-turfer - paid or unpaid, s/he's not here to chat shit or provoke people, s/he's here to push a party line. It's very, very obvious from the inconsistencies in views between threads.

I think s/he's useful to bring out arguments and evidence that would normally be taken as read, but there's really no point to mindless abuse, it just makes the counter-argument look as weak and pathetic as the propaganda line. IMO, obv.

S/he's a very useful idiot, so make best possible use of her/him, yeah?
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The alternative - and rather more charitable! - explanation is that she hasn't thought any of this through and genuinely doesn't see the inconsistencies in what she's posting.
 
frogwoman said:
i thought it'd be a lot, and i wasn't convinced by the "middle class lefties" bit of ymu's post in this context, i do have to say ... they must employ a lot more staff tho than just sub-editors etc tho ... and they'll also have freelancers, contractors etc i guess ... still sucks for the people losing their jobs though if they haven't done anything wrong - but i'm just not convinced that all of them are low paid and have no choices other than work there ...

obviously though, it's still completely out of order (and looks a bit mental!) that he's closed the paper in this manner ...
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if you want to work in newspapers there aren't that many options and Murdoch was a big employer for people trying to break into the industry.
 
Just seen this on the guardian's website and thought it was of interest

"A group of Times journalists are planning to try to get recognition for the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) at their workplace in the wake of the sudden axing of the News of the World, the Guardian has learned. The NUJ has long been denied recognition at News International titles where journalists are instead directed to join the News International Staff Association (Nisa)."
 
Kizmet said:
if you want to work in newspapers there aren't that many options and Murdoch was a big employer for people trying to break into the industry.
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ahhh ok, i wasn't trying to justify it or argue that they were all right etc ... and yep it is pretty hard to get into newspapers ... and i don't blame them for trying to fight it, at all ...
 
QueenOfGoths said:
Just seen this on the guardian's website and thought it was of interest

"A group of Times journalists are planning to try to get recognition for the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) at their workplace in the wake of the sudden axing of the News of the World, the Guardian has learned. The NUJ has long been denied recognition at News International titles where journalists are instead directed to join the News International Staff Association (Nisa)."
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Good luck to them.
 
claphamboy said:
....and coppers.
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Which reminds me that what the big time drug dealers say is true.

Everyone has their price. You cant bribe a British copper with hundreds or even thousands of pounds. But when you start talking hundreds of thousands or even millions its a different story.
 
frogwoman said:
ahhh ok, i wasn't trying to justify it or argue that they were all right etc ... and yep it is pretty hard to get into newspapers ... and i don't blame them for trying to fight it, at all ...
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I used to work as a freelance sub - for magazines mostly - but it's a pretty small world and I know freelancers who've taken the Murdoch pound. News Int pay comparatively well and a lot of journos and subs see getting a job there as a big deal - a success in their careers. But to say that such people have no choice but to take Murdoch's money and do his bidding is, imo, insulting to those who genuinely don't have a choice about where they work, such as lletsa in the early 80s.
 
Kizmet said:
if you want to work in newspapers there aren't that many options and Murdoch was a big employer for people trying to break into the industry.
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oh diddums. I had no choice but to work for a hateful propaganda sheet spewing out racist and anti working class bile for decades and now the cunt I happily worked for when he was fucking everyone else has fucked me too boo hoo. Should we have cried for the employees of Der Sturmer when they were closed down in 1945 too? FUCK EM.
 
ymu said:
What? No. Did you miss the 'middle-class luxury' bit. Address it directly if you want to make such stupid claims. What sorts of workers have these choices, lbj?

I agree with you, if there are plenty of vacancies that suit your skills and plenty of work that pays well enough to live. But, that's not everyone is it? That's a very fucking small proportion of the population, isn't it?

Middle-class lefties polishing their halos for doing what is easy and condemning less fortunate others for not doing what is impossible, as per fucking usual. Open your fucking eyes. Jesus.
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Hurrah.
 
QueenOfGoths said:
Just seen this on the guardian's website and thought it was of interest

"A group of Times journalists are planning to try to get recognition for the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) at their workplace in the wake of the sudden axing of the News of the World, the Guardian has learned. The NUJ has long been denied recognition at News International titles where journalists are instead directed to join the News International Staff Association (Nisa)."
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Good luck to them but they are 25 years too late. They didn't care about trade unions when they stabbed 6000 of their fellow workers in the back in the move to Wapping
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I used to work as a freelance sub - for magazines mostly - but it's a pretty small world and I know freelancers who've taken the Murdoch pound. News Int pay comparatively well and a lot of journos and subs see getting a job there as a big deal - a success in their careers. But to say that such people have no choice but to take Murdoch's money and do his bidding is, imo, insulting to those who genuinely don't have a choice about where they work, such as lletsa in the early 80s.
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yep, its absolutely not the same, but to be fair tho ,it is really hard to get into unless you know the right people and have the right contacts etc so some people would probably jump at the chance ... same with the publishing industry / harpercollins etc

it's really hard to get into the newspaper industry these days unless (in many cases) you're prepared to work for free, or alternatively to do work like that at the news of the world etc

and im sure they employ other people, just not necessarily on the journalistic side of things, too (like their complaints dept lol)

besides, rupert murdoch owns LOADS of companies, not just the media
 
frogwoman said:
yep, but to be fair tho ,it is really hard to get into unless you know the right people and have the right contacts etc so some people would probably jump at the chance ... same with the publishing industry / harpercollins etc

besides, rupert murdoch owns LOADS of companies, not just the media
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Yes. I don't have a problem at all with people working for a company owned by Murdoch. It's not their fault that the cunt has taken over so much of the media. Where I do have a problem is if they are actively involved in the production of hateful newspaper articles. At that point, they really have to take responsibility for what they are doing.
 
dylans said:
Good luck to them but they are 25 years too late. They didn't care about trade unions when they stabbed 6000 of their fellow workers in the back in the move to Wapping
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'scuse the ignorance, but what is this Wapping thing that keeps getting referenced? Link will do :)
 
littlebabyjesus said:
But to say that such people have no choice but to take Murdoch's money and do his bidding is, imo, insulting to those who genuinely don't have a choice about where they work, such as lletsa in the early 80s.
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And that's genuinely insulting to people who couldn't find work at all....

We could play this bullshit game forever. People are people whether they're your mates or you agree with them or not.
 
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