Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[London_Calling]

C'mon people, ElizabethofYork is on a permanent wind up. Move on, you're being mugged off.

 

[Treacle Toes]

C'mon people, ElizabethofYork is on a permanent wind up. Move on, you're being mugged off.

Heh! My point above still stands though.

 

[agricola]

Interesting post KT, I haven't been watching Newsnight.

My immediate reaction when I heard about the 'NoTW to close' story earlier this eve (immedlately after I cheered and bought another pint that is ) was to assume that Murdoch ws deliberately scuttling an already three quarters sunken ship, in order to salvage the rest of his empire ....

I dont think James Murdoch is the person they are protecting in this - he didnt have any control over the relevant part of News International until December 2007, and in any case he was never in a low enough position to sign anything incriminating (or at least, anything incriminating that might have come out in the records of Mulcaire etc). The worst thing he could have done is organize a cover-up, which might of course include the threats to go after MPs if they had subpoena'd Rebekah Brooks (which they were going to do as she refused to attend the Select Committee hearings).

Which would suggest its Brooks they are looking to protect, though admittedly I am at a loss as to why, or at least why they would go to this extent in an attempt to protect her. (edit)It might even be that Murdoch Snr himself isnt actually behind any of this, and what we have seen over the past few weeks is the News Corp board panicking, making repeated wrong decisions, because it suddenly finds itself having to make decisions for itself - lets face it, he is usually a lot more competent than they have been over this.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Also those (ex) employess of NOTW who have appeared on telly have all flatly refused to directly slag off news interantional or Rebecca Brooks. We are told the employees are absolutley furious - but none are talking to the cameras - so I guess redundancy payments are linked to keeping schtum. Which means that those employess who are apperaing on the media are shameless careerist hacks who deserve nothing but contempt. "There were tears, there were hugs, we talked about the good times we've had, its sad, we've done a good job, such a shame - crawly crawaly bumlick rupert"

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What responsibility does a corporation have towards their workers? Why are you not angry at how the NOTW is shafting their workers to save the reputation/skins of their management?

You seem to be blaming the public for disapproving of the way this particular corporation works because the corporation is now doing the dirty on it's workers. What they are doing now, to the workers, is further evidence of the self-centred/preserving scum that they are.

No, I'm sodding FURIOUS at what the NOTW has done to its workers.

Unlike some of the lovely people on Urban, who seem to be enjoying the fact that ordinary workers are being put on the dole

 

[dylans]

In most corporations, the office workers have no more power than the cleaners. To be able to search your conscience when it comes to what job you do is a middle class luxury, particularly in days of mass unemployment. I'm reminded of CND members who used to give me a hard time for going on CND demos but working on the shop floor in an arms factory. What the fuck was I supposed to do in 1981-82? Join hundreds of thousands of other kids on the dole for £13 a week?

The case of the NOTW is slightly different however. First because Murdochs entire wapping operation was built on the back of union busting. The entire previous staff of several thousand were fired for going on strike and its wapping staff bussed in in an operation of mass scabbing. This is the conditions that the present NOTW were and are quite happy to operate under until now.
Second, the staff of the NOTW have proven themselves to be my enemies and the enemies of the most vulnerable in society for decades. They have been quite happy to spew the most vicious anti working class, anti union, racist, homophobic, sexist and pro war propaganda without a word of protest for decades. They happily went along with attacking single parents, the unemployed, strikers, foreigners, gay people, Muslims and quite happily dished out a diet of meaningless pap and hypocritical semi pornographic propaganda worthy of Orwell, all dressed up in the language of self righteousness and moral superiority for decades without complaint. So forgive me if I find it hard to find too much sympathy for them now they are being served up with just a taste of what they have helped to dish out for years. Fuck em frankly I don't really care about the fate of these 200 scabs and inheritors of the working conditions created by scabs. They chose to work for this poisonous rag and now they are tasting a bit of the poison and I really don't care.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

You make weltweit look like a critical thinker.

brilliant

 

[William of Walworth]

its amazing how some people who have been here for years still fall for an obvious troll/returning poster again and again and again. elizabethofyork has been doing some top trolling over a number of topics for ages now, its so obvious even ive noticed it and im rubbish at spotting things

No disagreement whatsoever there.

But I have to retire, work tomororow!

(Good posts from agricola and KT btw )

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Dylans, I'm sure you're aware that sometime if you want to work, you have to work for companies that you don't totally agree with.

All the cleaners, tea ladies, maintenance people, clerical workers, etc. that worked for the NOTW are being tarred by you as deserving their fate.

How sanctimonious of you.

 

[Kaka Tim]

I dont think James Murdoch is the person they are protecting in this - he didnt have any control over the relevant part of News International until December 2007, and in any case he was never in a low enough position to sign anything incriminating (or at least, anything incriminating that might have come out in the records of Mulcaire etc). The worst thing he could have done is organize a cover-up, which might of course include the threats to go after MPs if they had subpoena'd Rebekah Brooks (which they were going to do as she refused to attend the Select Committee hearings).

Which would suggest its Brooks they are looking to protect, though admittedly I am at a loss as to why, or at least why they would go to this extent in an attempt to protect her.

Hes clearly moving into the firing line - hes admitted paying hush money - meaning he knew about the phone hacking, yet kept up the bullshit about a 'rouge reporter' - he did nothing to investigate what had happened and organsied a cover up. Theres plenty of shit to stick to him. Keeping Brooks only makes sense if shes there as a shit sponge.

Not that it will work - I really think Murdoch empire will be finshed by this. American media are licking their lips over this as well - its starting to look like a pecking party.

Cos we can be sure that there is plenty more scandal to come once people start poking into news internationals files and the more toxic NI becomes, the less and less power Murdoch has.

 

[Gingerman]

Saying that the NOTW was a great paper, Hugh Grant v crap etc.

Shame Moron cant be dragged into this scandal.

 

[DexterTCN]

No, I'm sodding FURIOUS at what the NOTW has done to its workers.

Unlike some of the lovely people on Urban, who seem to be enjoying the fact that ordinary workers are being put on the dole

When Luke destroyed the DeathStar there were independent contractors on it, it was still being built.

Shouldn't be working on the fucking DeathStar, should they.

And the lovely people of Urban are generally strongly in favour of a good welfare system to help those who become unemployed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In most corporations, the office workers have no more power than the cleaners. To be able to search your conscience when it comes to what job you do is a middle class luxury, particularly in days of mass unemployment. I'm reminded of CND members who used to give me a hard time for going on CND demos but working on the shop floor in an arms factory. What the fuck was I supposed to do in 1981-82? Join hundreds of thousands of other kids on the dole for £13 a week?

"I was only obeying orders."

It's ridiculous to say that you should not search your conscience over what you do within the confines of the choices you have.

It's not a luxury. It is a responsibility that you either do or do not take upon yourself.

 

[William of Walworth]

The case of the NOTW is slightly different however. First because Murdochs entire wapping operation was built on the back of union busting. The entire previous staff of several thousand were fired for going on strike and its wapping staff bussed in in an operation of mass scabbing. This is the conditions that the present NOTW were and are quite happy to operate under until now.
Second, the staff of the NOTW have proven themselves to be my enemies and the enemies of the most vulnerable in society for decades. They have been quite happy to spew the most vicious anti working class, anti union, racist, homophobic, sexist and pro war propaganda without a word of protest for decades. They happily went along with attacking single parents, the unemployed, strikers, foreigners, gay people, Muslims and quite happily dished out a diet of meaningless pap and hypocritical semi pornographic propaganda worthy of Orwell, all dressed up in the language of self righteousness and moral superiority for decades without complaint.

So forgive me if I find it hard to find too much sympathy for them now they are being served up with just a taste of what they have helped to dish out for years. Fuck em frankly I don't really care about the fate of these 200 scabs and inheritors of the working conditions created by scabs. They chose to work for this poisonous rag and now they are tasting a bit of the poison and I really don't care.

Excellent post.

I happen to think that the NoTW in particular was much more focussed on 'celeb' scandal (along with with all the methods they used to grab the details on that ) than they were on minority hate whipping up like the Sun prefers.

Still, the exact proportions between those two things on those two rags isn't much more than angels on the head of a pin semantics really.

And in any case you give great rant!

 

[Santino]

When Luke destroyed the DeathStar there were independent contractors on it, it was still being built.

It was those space wasps from Attack of the Clones.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

When Luke destroyed the DeathStar there were independent contractors on it, it was still being built.

Shouldn't be working on the fucking DeathStar, should they.

And the lovely people of Urban are generally strongly in favour of a good welfare system to help those who become unemployed.

sanctimonious crap.

 

[dylans]

Dylans, I'm sure you're aware that sometime if you want to work, you have to work for companies that you don't totally agree with.

All the cleaners, tea ladies, maintenance people, clerical workers, etc. that worked for the NOTW are being tarred by you as deserving their fate.

How sanctimonious of you.

Tell that to the 6000 Fleet street workers sacked by Murdoch to create his Wapping operation. Where are your tears for them?

 

[London_Calling]

Hes clearly moving into the firing line - hes admitted paying hush money - meaning he knew about the phone hacking, yet kept up the bullshit about a 'rouge reporter' - he did nothing to investigate what had happened and organsied a cover up. Theres plenty of shit to stick to him. Keeping Brooks only makes sense if shes there as a shit sponge.

Not that it will work - I really think Murdoch empire will be finshed by this. American media are licking their lips over this as well - its starting to look like a pecking party.

Cos we can be sure that there is plenty more scandal to come once people start poking into news internationals files and the more toxic NI becomes, the less and less power Murdoch has.

Ftr, none of this post makes any sense to me. Imo, you're misunderstanding every dynamic in play.

 

[belboid]

Also those (ex) employess of NOTW who have appeared on telly have all flatly refused to directly slag off news interantional or Rebecca Brooks. We are told the employees are absolutley furious - but none are talking to the cameras - so I guess redundancy payments are linked to keeping schtum. Which means that those employess who are apperaing on the media are shameless careerist hacks who deserve nothing but contempt. "There were tears, there were hugs, we talked about the good times we've had, its sad, we've done a good job, such a shame - crawly crawaly bumlick rupert"

If there is a Sunday Sun then many of those same workers will be TUPE'd across anyway, so they have that to look out for too.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Shame Moron cant be dragged into this scandal.

Oh, I bet the Digger has some dirt on the Moron's tenure at NI too. Perhaps that's why Moron is acting like his loyal lapdog at the moment?

 

[William of Walworth]

Hes clearly moving into the firing line - hes admitted paying hush money - meaning he knew about the phone hacking, yet kept up the bullshit about a 'rouge reporter' - he did nothing to investigate what had happened and organsied a cover up. Theres plenty of shit to stick to him. Keeping Brooks only makes sense if shes there as a shit sponge.

Not that it will work - I really think Murdoch empire will be finshed by this. American media are licking their lips over this as well - its starting to look like a pecking party.


Cos we can be sure that there is plenty more scandal to come once people start poking into news internationals files and the more toxic NI becomes, the less and less power Murdoch has.

If only I could be properly confident that the bit of your post that I've bolded was true .... not so far ....

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Tell that to the 6000 Fleet street workers sacked by Murdoch to create his Wapping operation. Where are your tears for them?

Well of course that was shocking and outrageous! But does that mean it's okay for the current people to be shafted?

 

[William of Walworth]

If there is a Sunday Sun then many of those same workers will be TUPE'd across anyway, so they have that to look out for too.

We were talking about this very prospect in the pub earlier.

Version of something similar bound to emerge pretty soon?

 

[Kaka Tim]

Shares in Rupert Murdoch's companies tumble as investors take frightFears over deal for BSkyB wipes £600m off its value, while jitters on Wall Street also hit News Corp share price


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/07/shares-rupert-murdoch-companies

 

[agricola]

Ftr, none of this post makes any sense to me. Imo, you're misunderstanding every dynamic in play.

I disagree with the idea that this is a protect James Murdoch type thing (as mentioned above), but its almost a cliche in history that the lifetimes work of an old and powerful man gets squandered by his less capable descendants, so its not beyond the realm of possibility that this is the beginning of the end for the Murdoch Empire.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Ftr, none of this post makes any sense to me. Imo, you're misunderstanding every dynamic in play.

How so?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Oh yes! C/o Harpy Marx @Twitter (thankx), proof of Brook's true nature: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/politics/article-23968124-some-mps-suspected-a-year-ago-but-nobody-wouldve-believed-it.do

 

[LLETSA]

"I was only obeying orders."

It's ridiculous to say that you should not search your conscience over what you do within the confines of the choices you have.

It's not a luxury. It is a responsibility that you either do or do not take upon yourself.

The only option I had when I worked in an arms factory was to work there or sign on. I wanted to earn my own living.

Manchester in 1981 wasn't exactly overflowing with choices in these matters.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Ooh, that's an interesting thought...

(In response to mellysingsdoom)

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Dylans, I'm sure you're aware that sometime if you want to work, you have to work for companies that you don't totally agree with.

All the cleaners, tea ladies, maintenance people, clerical workers, etc. that worked for the NOTW are being tarred by you as deserving their fate.

How sanctimonious of you.

I don't think anyone would disagree with the notion that people losing their jobs because of the actions of others, that they have no influence over, is a bad thing. This thread isn't about workers losing their jobs because a corporation closes down, even though some people may be happy to see an established media institution closed down (168 year old paper, quite impressive if you think about its circulation which remained comparatively healthy).

It is primarily about discussing the bigger picture stuff as to how such behaviour goes unchallenged, why collusion between the met and the media is allowed to occur nationally and regionally (Boris Johnson was awful when pushed on this earlier on this evening) and lots of other issues. Yes, some "innocent" workers lost their jobs at notw, yes some people are pleased, yes lets discuss the issue at hand though which is illegal phone hacking, with police involvement, against a backdrop of media ownership which has serious implications for what people think, allegedly