Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[TruXta]

Exactly.... What Cameron has done has had a big effect on his wider plans.... Seems pretty logical/straightforward/obvious to me.

"Seems". Appearances can deceive, Feds. I don't get what's so fucking difficult with suspending judgment on this particular point.

 

[weltweit]

Who's his likely replacement though? Davis is an outsider, cHunt? Letwin? Osborne

Letwin? Letwin is a twat !

 

[Teaboy]

I don't rate Ed Milliband either, somehow innefectual. If Milliband can't land a punch in the current environment, there may be no hope for him!

Thats a good point. Its not just Cameron that this is a crucial time for, if Milliband can't make this work then he'll be out before the summer is over.

 

[Fedayn]

"Seems". Appearances can deceive, Feds. I don't get what's so fucking difficult with suspending judgment on this particular point.

There's nothing wrong with it, but it does give a wider context to the whole shebang.... The likes of Rusbridger want it nailing at News Int. He's not exactly gonna want it to be looked at in the wider context of the political culture and backslapping that could well, indeed SHOULD, get dragged into this is he?! So, warn Cameron off, get in a few brownie points when it goes tits up and Coulson is elsewhere.... And it doesn't affect the wider media/political culture....

 

[ymu]

Didn't happen.

Don't trash the Guardian because..."that's one of the tactics these cunts used to get the cops and the politicians and the rest of the media to ignore this story (note I said "one of" there) and I can't see how it would help anything at the moment."


Wow. How fucking headcase is that? Let me diced what are legitimate targets and in what order they may be attacked. Any reason why ymu?

I've invited you to explain why gunning for Rusbridger and the Guardian would be an effective strategy right now, under these circumstances, given what is happening, and what is likely to happen.

And you have come back with yet another insulting and inaccurate paraphrasing with no new content, for at least the dozenth post in a row.

Which says to me, you know you're floundering. If you had an argument, you'd give it. You don't, so you're resorting to sneering. Well done you.

 

[Balbi]

Letwin? Letwin is a twat !

Yes. He also sorted a lot of the manifesto out, a driver behind Cameron's P.R spin.

Fucking hell, i've just thought - Hague He'd eat Ed Milliband for breakfast week in, week out.

 

[Fedayn]

I don't rate Ed Milliband either, somehow innefectual. If Milliband can't land a punch in the current environment, there may be no hope for him!

Echoes of Kinnock bottling it/making a cunt of it over the Westlands Affair back in 1986.

 

[TruXta]

There's nothing wrong with it, but it does give a wider context top the whole shebang.... The likes of Rusbridger want it mailing at News Int. He's not exactly gonna want it to be looked at in the wider context of the political culture and backslapping that could well, indeed SHOULD, get dragged into this is he?! So, warn Cameron off, get in a few brownie points when it goes tits up and Coulson is elsewhere.... And it doesn't affect the wider media7political culture....

That's a very useful hypothesis. All I'm asking is that people don't treat it as dead cert fact. Anyway, minor point, have at it folks.

 

[weltweit]

Does anyone agree that the two enquiries have been set up with parameters that were probably not enough thought through. They have been generated as a knee jerk reaction and limit their scope which could as a side effect limit the result of the enquiry.

"Why did the original police enquiry fail?" (with the judge)

"the ethics of the press" (was it?)

I bet if they took their time to generate the scope of the enquiries they could do better.

 

[elbows]

Things that are fairly well known often mean that they're fairly well known by a select few. Make ot known to all right now. Who will lose? Or is all principle drowned in (inept internet) tactics?

I tend to think of these things as fairly well known by more than the few, but seldom discussed or factored into the full scope of issues that they can affect.

Or to put it another way, things seldom discussed sanely on the telly.

I don't think any drowning of principal is a new internet phenomenon, I think we could apply this struggle between full consideration of the whole truth, and a far more selective focussing on certain issues, to almost everything humans ever discuss.

Humans, organisations, etc don't seem to be great at sticking to principals all of the time, and the quantity of contradictions that life seems to feature provide ample opportunities for us all to fall down when it comes to principals.

The world needs people who stick to their principals, but it seems hard to imagine a world completely filled with such people. Much could be done with a decent system designed to reduce conflicts of interest, belief and dodgy compromises as much as is possible, without having to rely on specific individuals to do the right thing. But there are probably always going to be limits to quite how far ideas of principal and truth can go. Because if we do it properly then we must question our own motivations endlessly, and may easily end up paralysed and unable to act if we endlessly view the full nature of the conflict, if there are never any heroes, if the foul reality always seeps through, if we are unable to hold our noses, or make grand but flawed compromises in the name of achieving anything at all. Humanity needs Thomas Paines, but a few of them can go a long way so I don't think we need everyone to get in on this action.

Personally I find it very hard to hold my nose and so I've never joined anything, but I have been thinking much about the nature of politics and compromise, because one day I would like to be a part of something and I need to get more of a clue about when to be harmonious and when to kick up a stink. Internet and brief involvement with the organisation of something non-political seemed to show me that unless great care is taken, my concerns and beliefs and the way I expressed them within the org were far more destructive than constructive.

 

[butchersapron]

I've invited you to explain why gunning for Rusbridger and the Guardian would be an effective strategy right now, under these circumstances, given what is happening, and what is likely to happen.

And you have come back with yet another insulting and inaccurate paraphrasing with no new content, for at least the dozenth post in a row.

Which says to me, you know you're floundering. If you had an argument, you'd give it. You don't, so you're resorting to sneering. Well done you.

And rather than ignoring you i argued why it's important to attack the guardian right now, to reject and narrowing of the focus down to the NOTW. I also laughed at the pomposity of the idea that what you do matters, what tactical swerves you post on here matter. Or what i post for that matter. That said, if you're so dumb you're only looking at murdoch now then they have already won. You mug.

 

[agricola]

And rather than ignoring you i argued why it's important to attack the guardian right now, to reject and narrowing of the focus down to the NOTW. I also laughed at the pomposity of the idea that what you do matters, what tactical swerves you post on here matter. Or what i post for that matter. That said, if you're so dumb you're only looking at murdoch now then they have already won. You mug.

You laughed at the pomposity of ymu! You card.

 

[butchersapron]

I've invited you to explain why gunning for Rusbridger and the Guardian would be an effective strategy right now

For what? What are our united aims?

 

[Gingerman]

Just checked the Sun webpage,not a fucking sausage,just shows the contempt they hold for their readers.

 

[butchersapron]

You laughed at the pomposity of ymu! You card.

Were you hacked roman?

 

[agricola]

Were you hacked roman?

Do you have to have been to laugh at someone elses pomposity?

 

[elbows]

And rather than ignoring you i argued why it's important to attack the guardian right now, to reject and narrowing of the focus down to the NOTW. I also laughed at the pomposity of the idea that what you do matters, what tactical swerves you post on here matter. Or what i post for that matter. That said, if you're so dumb you're only looking at murdoch now then they have already won. You mug.

I doubt its that straightforward. If you state what you think is the ultimate prize that could be achieved by attacking on more fronts right now is, it would be easier to judge.

The mass media, especially print media, is already facing an uncertain future. TV is ugly, internet has potential. But even with the net, even if we aren't dealing with the same hierarchies, we'll likely face new ones. There will still be certain people who are articulate, funny,or can rally the troops, or whatever, that have a far greater ability to influence masses of people. And with such power, we could expect that the state and business will want to have a similar relationship with these people as they do with the present media.

 

[butchersapron]

Do you have to have been to laugh at someone elses pomposity?

Nope. Up Pompeii.

 

[butchersapron]

I doubt its that straightforward. If you state what you think is the ultimate prize that could be achieved by attacking on more fronts right now is, it would be easier to judge.

The mass media, especially print media, is already facing an uncertain future. TV is ugly, internet has potential. But even with the net, even if we aren't dealing with the same hierarchies, we'll likely face new ones. There will still be certain people who are articulate, funny,or can rally the troops, or whatever, that have a far greater ability to influence masses of people. And with such power, we could expect that the state and business will want to have a similar relationship with these people as they do with the present media.

So let's take our eyes off the NOTW sharpish

 

[ymu]

For what? What are our united aims?

I first made this argument with reference to the Mail a week ago, when the advertisers were pulling out of NotW. I have been very clear that I want the whole fucking establishment cleaned out by this.

I have no idea what yours are because you have repeatedly refused to frame your argument in anything other than the broadest possible terms, and insulting misrepresentations.

 

[butchersapron]

I first made this argument with reference to the Mail a week ago, when the advertisers were pulling out of NotW. I have been very clear that I want the whole fucking establishment cleaned out by this.

I have no idea what yours are because you have repeatedly refused to frame your argument in anything other than the broadest possible terms, and insulting misrepresentations.

Why does you saying what you what to happen days ago change things? How does that effect me having different priorities? How does that effect the sheer fucking cheek of of you tell me that my priorities aren't valid because YOU disagree with them?

 

[invisibleplanet]

ego poo BORING!

 

[butchersapron]

I first made this argument with reference to the Mail a week ago, when the advertisers were pulling out of NotW. I have been very clear that I want the whole fucking establishment cleaned out by this.

I have no idea what yours are because you have repeatedly refused to frame your argument in anything other than the broadest possible terms, and insulting misrepresentations.

I want to deligitmate the media and everything else i can. Was that not clear? I think this is an ideal opportunity to do so. So i do so. Not too bothered about your own Internet plans..

 

[gavman]

How the hell did Andy Hayman make Asst Commissioner?!

he was competing against other police officers. in the land of the blind..

 

[Balbi]

Hayman reminded me of Richard Lintern's bent copper in The Shadow Line today.

 

[gavman]

Hayman goes mental when asked if he received payments from any news corp, yet earlier admitted receiving hospitality, same thing really.

bluster from a copper used to setting the agenda

 

[elbows]

So let's take our eyes off the NOTW sharpish

Well one problem with that is that we are reliant on others to spill the beans about a range of other media entities. If nobody unleashes any of this stuff into the public domain then I'll have to wait for the enquiry and then make exceedingly loud noises if the enquiry shows no signs of touching the vast bulk of media pus.

And there are just so many choices as to where to turn our eyes next, but not much to focus clearly on. Plus we could easily throw in another musky dimension in the form of the intelligence agencies, and I wouldn't hold out too much hope of getting to the bottom of much in that world.

By the way since I mentioned the net in last post, I should add that for a few years I was paying fairly close attention to the evolving concept of blogs, and all the hype that went with it. During this time the ethics and principals of some of those in the blogosphere was tested, and found wanting to an extent that can even at times rival that of traditional journalism. A noticeable hierarchy also formed pretty quickly, although barriers to entry remain exceptionally low if you have ability, so there is still potential. For me some of the excitement of talk about things such as the long tail wore off when it became apparent that there is presently not a vast pool of talent that the existing hierarchies have failed to make use of, that now emerges via the net. There remains potential, but at the very least more time is needed for more humans to emerge as players on this front.

If I was designing a world from scratch then I may well say to hell with specialisation of a wide variety of roles, at least ones that have deep political significance. Many more of us should spend less hours at our paid job, and take part in civilisation on a non-commercial basis in a variety of ways, many of which are made practical by the net.

 

[gavman]

this is totally destroying Cameron, for once he has no one to take the hit for him

he's being cruelly exposed as a lightweight

 

[elbows]

he's being cruelly exposed as a lightweight

Well he'd be nothing but a condom filled with one of Thatchers farts were it not for the way the media & politics has intertwined and evolved in recent decades. So even if the Coulson aspect did not exist, he is hardly the right man for the job of sailing the good ship corrupticus on these particular seas.

 

[butchersapron]

Well one problem with that is that we are reliant on others to spill the beans about a range of other media entities. If nobody unleashes any of this stuff into the public domain then I'll have to wait for the enquiry and then make exceedingly loud noises if the enquiry shows no signs of touching the vast bulk of media pus.

And there are just so many choices as to where to turn our eyes next, but not much to focus clearly on. Plus we could easily throw in another musky dimension in the form of the intelligence agencies, and I wouldn't hold out too much hope of getting to the bottom of much in that world.

By the way since I mentioned the net in last post, I should add that for a few years I was paying fairly close attention to the evolving concept of blogs, and all the hype that went with it. During this time the ethics and principals of some of those in the blogosphere was tested, and found wanting to an extent that can even at times rival that of traditional journalism. A noticeable hierarchy also formed pretty quickly, although barriers to entry remain exceptionally low if you have ability, so there is still potential. For me some of the excitement of talk about things such as the long tail wore off when it became apparent that there is presently not a vast pool of talent that the existing hierarchies have failed to make use of, that now emerges via the net. There remains potential, but at the very least more time is needed for more humans to emerge as players on this front.

If I was designing a world from scratch then I may well say to hell with specialisation of a wide variety of roles, at least ones that have deep political significance. Many more of us should spend less hours at our paid job, and take part in civilisation on a non-commercial basis in a variety of ways, many of which are made practical by the net.

That's the same whatever 'our' targets'. Nothing is easy lad. NI, i think there's people looking into that. Rusbridger - no.

It's telling of who 'we ' are on here i have to admit.