Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared

[Saul Goodman]

They might be hypocrites, but on this particular topic you're just a little bit mad.

I think it's the abject hypocrisy that's driving me that way.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Seitan, or wheat meat. High in protein.

Also takes a lot of energy to make and is low in nutritional content. Tastes good, though. I like seitan, but it's not something one should base one's diet around.

 

[TruXta]

Also takes a lot of energy to make and is low in nutritional content. Tastes good, though. I like seitan, but it's not something one should base one's diet around.

It can't simultaneously be high protein and low in nutrition can it?

 

[8ball]

In terms of resource management I don't think it's nonsense at all. What is a 'fair share', for instance? Within small groups, we're pretty good at this, but once groups grow above a certain size, we start to lose sight of it and stop feeling it so keenly. At a worldwide scale, thinking of all humans as sharing a common humanity worthy of ethical respect, with 7 billion people considered, we're very bad at it, hence the distribution of resources is so unethical.

That's nothing to do with the idea that if you can't supply something for everyone, then it shouldn't be supplied to anyone. You couldn't have everyone in the world going to the same place on holiday, that doesn't mean no one should be able to go on holiday. With regard to solving a lot of environmental problems, a diversity of solutions in different places is appropriate, not blanket solutions for everyone in all places.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It can't simultaneously be high protein and low in nutrition can it?

Well, vitamins and that. But you have a point. It's the vegan equivalent of a Big Mac.

 

[Calamity1971]

Also takes a lot of energy to make and is low in nutritional content. Tastes good, though. I like seitan, but it's not something one should base one's diet around.

Depends what you have to accompany it.
Bit like someone who eats a lot of meat, processed or otherwise. Its all about balance.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's nothing to do with the idea that if you can't supply something for everyone, then it shouldn't be supplied to anyone. You couldn't have everyone in the world going to the same place on holiday, that doesn't mean no one should be able to go on holiday. With regard to solving a lot of environmental problems, a diversity of solutions in different places is appropriate, not blanket solutions for everyone in all places.

It just means you have to be more sophisticated in your response. Ethically, which is what we're speaking of, a fair share might include a 'frivolity' quota. So someone might like driving sports cars. Fine, but that's x points out of your quota so you'll have to forego something else. All working from the ground up on the principle of 'fair share'. As I said, within families/small groups, this is more or less how we operate.

 

[ddraig]

I bet every piece of electronic equipment you own was built by exploited workers on China. I bet every vegangelist on this thread has a phone that was made in China by exploited HUMANS, when there are alternatives, you bunch of hypocrites.

ah the predictable and pathetic whattabouttery, so tedious
give yourself a pat on the back tho, well done

 

[Calamity1971]

I bet every piece of electronic equipment you own was built by exploited workers on China. I bet every vegangelist on this thread has a phone that was made in China by exploited HUMANS, when there are alternatives, you bunch of hypocrites.

Christ, like vegans/vegetarians have never heard that particular shite argument before.
Do you ethically source everything you own?

 

[Calamity1971]

ah the predictable and pathetic whattabouttery, so tedious
give yourself a pat on the back tho, well done

Yep.

 

[ddraig]

I bet every piece of electronic equipment you own was built by exploited workers on China. I bet every vegangelist on this thread has a phone that was made in China by exploited HUMANS, when there are alternatives, you bunch of hypocrites.

WHY does it bother YOU so much?? why can't you just ignore and carry on doing and eating whatever you want??

 

[8ball]

It just means you have to be more sophisticated in your response. Ethically, which is what we're speaking of, a fair share might include a 'frivolity' quota. So someone might like driving sports cars. Fine, but that's x points out of your quota so you'll have to forego something else. All working from the ground up on the principle of 'fair share'. As I said, within families/small groups, this is more or less how we operate.

i) How does this relate to your first comment that I responded to?
ii) This seems less directly related to the subject of ethics and more related to some personal theory of the viability of communism that you may have.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i) How does this relate to your first comment that I responded to?
ii) This seems less directly related to the subject of ethics and more related to some personal theory of the viability of communism that you may have.

1) directly
2) well the two may well be linked - not surprising. Communism is certainly predicated on ideas of fairness and ethical values based on a fair share.

 

[Edie]

That would have to mean rationing of some kind. I'm not against rationing in principle - links to the idea of a 'fair share' mentioned above - but we're politically a long way from a place where such a thing would be possible. It needs to come not in isolation but alongside a host of other measures to increase fairness.

Yeah I actually thought about rationing when I wrote the post. Although that wouldn’t work as the rich would just buy the poors rations.

The problem with globalisation isn’t going to go away and doesn’t seem solvable to me. Maybe I’m too pessimistic. At some point as a species we’ll exceed carrying capacity, and our numbers will be decimated via radical climate change, starvation, or pandemic. Until that point I have pretty much no optimism that we can work collaboratively to solve the major environmental problems.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I honestly don't think that any food source should be eliminated from the planet.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Christ, like vegans/vegetarians have never heard that particular shite argument before.
Do you ethically source everything you own?

No, but neither do I go around telling others what they should and shouldn't eat.

 

[ddraig]

No, but neither do I go around telling others what they should and shouldn't eat.

Who has done that here?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Who has done that here?

Shut up you arse licking bore.

 

[ddraig]

Shut up you arse licking bore.

can't answer then!
get a fucking grip

 

[ddraig]

wondered how long the abuse would take, predictable again

 

[Calamity1971]

.

No, but neither do I go around telling others what they should and shouldn't eat.

Neither do I. What's your point?
Is everything you own ethically sourced or not?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah I actually thought about rationing when I wrote the post. Although that wouldn’t work as the rich would just buy the poors rations.

The problem with globalisation isn’t going to go away and doesn’t seem solvable to me. Maybe I’m too pessimistic. At some point as a species we’ll exceed carrying capacity, and our numbers will be decimated via radical climate change, starvation, or pandemic. Until that point I have pretty much no optimism that we can work collaboratively to solve the major environmental problems.

We already have rationing, of course. It's just done in a massively unjust way via money and markets. I get the pessimism. There's plenty of reason for it. I can sit here and outline systems that I think would work and work well, and, crucially, from which people would not want to return to the current system, but it's the process of getting from here to there that is the challenge.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Who has done that here?

Well when a thread is about cutting dairy and meat production then that is going to limit some people's intake of those food sources.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

can't answer then!
get a fucking grip

I did answer you... why are you being aggressive to me?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

wondered how long the abuse would take, predictable again

What are you on about?

 

[Saul Goodman]

.

Neither do I. What's your point?
Is everything you own ethically sourced or not?

Can you not read? I said no. But neither am I a hypocrite.

 

[Calamity1971]

What are you on about?

He's talking about Saul Goodman

 

[Calamity1971]

Can you not read? I said no. But neither am I a hypocrite.

Someone who cares about the abuse of animals has to automatically be a Saint and source everything ethically? It's a shit argument that's rolled out by plonkers like yourself and carries no weight.

 

[ddraig]

I did answer you... why are you being aggressive to me?

i've not responded to you it's a response to Saul

 

[ddraig]

Well when a thread is about cutting dairy and meat production then that is going to limit some people's intake of those food sources.

the thread isn't making people cut down their intake is it?? that's a personal choice and this thread can be ignored
there isn't the need for the vitriol and abuse and people in response to the thread imho