Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared
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editor
hiraethified
I've expressed my opinion that people should consume less meat and dairy products. That is not the same as trying to persuade someone to do anything. But thanks for the personal touch again. I suppose it's easier than actually engaging with the content of that last link.I thought you weren't trying to persuade anyone?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
How many such farms are there in the UK and how widely available is the milk in the shops? How much does it cost? What happens to the male calves on the farm? How are the cows impregnated? What impact does selective breeding to produce large milk yields have on the health and well-being of the cows? What is the impact of repeated (and overlapping) cycles of pregnancy and lactation on the health and well-being of the cows? What are the slaughterhouses like that they are sent to?
Seemingly benign forms of animal farming are the exception to the rule, often unaffordable and usually also involve various forms of hidden suffering. Even if we bracket the question of killing - and environmental concerns - the animal welfare case for ditching dairy for plant substitutes looks pretty solid to me.
TruXta
tired
In fact it is the same. I can't be bothered with your links tbh. You don't engage in honest discussion on this thread.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
'banging on', or simply pointing out? You provided the comparison with almond milk, not others, so if anyone is 'banging on' on this thread, it is you. The appalling standard of your debating is particularly shit on a subject like this one precisely because many of those pointing out the problems with, say, almond milk are broadly in agreement with the much more general point. This is an important subject and it's important to get stuff right. Stop being so bloody defensive every time someone questions a stat or fact you've posted up. In context, the amount of protein in almond milk is anything but a sideshow. Environmentally speaking, almond milk is potentially just as bad as, if not worse than, cow milk. In a discussion about potential replacements for cow milk that is pretty bloody key.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Ireland issues solved.
Ironic innit?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
No, that’s nonsense.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
Ditching? Completely?
What does that mean for those animals?
And what about people who do want the choice to have dairy?
Have they no voice at all?
Yeah, fucking weetaflakes. Man up.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In terms of resource management I don't think it's nonsense at all. What is a 'fair share', for instance? Within small groups, we're pretty good at this, but once groups grow above a certain size, we start to lose sight of it and stop feeling it so keenly. At a worldwide scale, thinking of all humans as sharing a common humanity worthy of ethical respect, with 7 billion people considered, we're very bad at it, hence the distribution of resources is so unethical.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's not how the world works though. As has been pointed out, 80 per cent of the world's almonds come from California. This is done not to satisfy the needs of 20-odd million Californians. 'its needs' is not an easy thing to measure. It is in fact a nonsense when land is owned by a tiny group whose interests are often opposed to those of their non-land-owning neighbours.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
That should be the goal, yes. The production of dairy directly involves a whole litany of horrible abuses that lack any justification.
It would mean they would cease to be bred into the dairy industry, which would be a blessing for them.
People are legally entitled to buy dairy, so in that sense it is their choice. But consuming dairy is a choice to support a very violent and exploitative industry and given that plant milks are now widely available, there are more ethical alternatives.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Tangential to the thread I know, but I'd recommend watching this beautiful 15 minute documentary - recently nominated for a BAFTA for best short film - about two beef farmers who decided to retire their entire herd to an animal sanctuary (no gore, no violence):
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
This may only work in wealthy first world environments where the alternative is as good and as reasonably priced as dairy. And where it can be produced locally and won't run out.
Mrs Miggins
Eternal
So is the general consensus that oat milk is best for tea and coffee? That's all I use milk for. I'm going to try some.
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
I've never tastwd it. But Oats blo2 me out and my gut doesn't cope well with them. Discovered this only when I stopped and started having eggs for breakfast instead.
Can't see oat milk interfering much with the taste of tea though.
editor
hiraethified
I prefer unsweetened soya milk and find most of the supermarket own brand ones taste fine.
Mrs Miggins
Eternal
I really don't like soya milk. I have tried a few but it just tastes like cardboard to me.
I had a carton of almond milk when camping in Aussie on the grounds that it wouldn't go off but that was not nice in tea or coffee either.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Oatly barista edition is IMO the closest tasting thing to real milk of plabt based substitutes
editor
hiraethified
How long ago was that? Some soya milks used to be really rank but they've vastly improved in recent times - but clearly not everyone is going to like the taste.
Mrs Miggins
Eternal
Oh god probably a long time ago for the soya. The almond milk 2 years ago. Maybe I'll try again
Baronage-Phase
Well-Known Member
I wish I could take soya milk but I can't eat soya. It really messes me up.
Can't have tofu. Can't have quorn ..allergic. So I'll be waiting for the potato milk and if it's very starchy that won't be good.
It's taken me a while to figure out what foods I can eat. My immune system reacts. And meat and dairy and select fruit and veg are it. Along with rice and pasta
Can't have grapefruit, strawberries....allergic.
Can only have tomatoes maybe once a week.
Oranges once a fortnight. I get joint pain after oranges and uncooked tomatoes.
Was told not to eat a lot of kale or Brussels sprouts.
I'm ok with beef, chicken, cheese...All dairy.
And rice pasta and potatoes, green beans, most beans actually.
No muscle or joint pains from them.
If you can only eat certain foods then to have to cut out meat and dairy leaves you with a rather limited diet.
Is there any protein that is not made from fungus or soy
Can't have tofu. Can't have quorn ..allergic. So I'll be waiting for the potato milk and if it's very starchy that won't be good.
It's taken me a while to figure out what foods I can eat. My immune system reacts. And meat and dairy and select fruit and veg are it. Along with rice and pasta
Can't have grapefruit, strawberries....allergic.
Can only have tomatoes maybe once a week.
Oranges once a fortnight. I get joint pain after oranges and uncooked tomatoes.
Was told not to eat a lot of kale or Brussels sprouts.
I'm ok with beef, chicken, cheese...All dairy.
And rice pasta and potatoes, green beans, most beans actually.
No muscle or joint pains from them.
If you can only eat certain foods then to have to cut out meat and dairy leaves you with a rather limited diet.
Is there any protein that is not made from fungus or soy
Ahh that was lovely. Made me feel emotional. I hope they’re both making a success of the new farm.
I do wish something could or would be done about it. That there was just a big button that would be pushed and the only farms left were decent small ones where any animals were treated well and they didn’t use chemicals and that.
If that meant radically less meat and milk I could live with that. So long as it wasn’t the preserve of the rich.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
I bet every piece of electronic equipment you own was built by exploited workers on China. I bet every vegangelist on this thread has a phone that was made in China by exploited HUMANS, when there are alternatives, you bunch of hypocrites.
TruXta
tired
Pulses.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That would have to mean rationing of some kind. I'm not against rationing in principle - links to the idea of a 'fair share' mentioned above - but we're politically a long way from a place where such a thing would be possible. It needs to come not in isolation but alongside a host of other measures to increase fairness.
TruXta
tired
They might be hypocrites, but on this particular topic you're just a little bit mad.
Calamity1971
If Mr Peanut says It's okay, then it is.
Seitan, or wheat meat. High in protein.
