butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think the key point is the planned construction of a middle class and the awareness of what it entails to keep them afloat.
'Middle Class' it's basically just a construct isn't it...
- Thread starter stuff_it
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbf, class is a bit of an urban obsession. Most people don't think about it very often at all. I only really think about it on here.God knows what class my kids are or going to be. Completely
And as danny said, class is a useful thing to think about when you're looking at large numbers of people and particular trends. When you come down to the level of the individual, it loses its usefulness.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They do, they just don't think about it in formal class terms.
not been here that long but it is a bit lefty and self-righteous in here, and i'M sure people dont chat like this in real life. Bit sad if they do like!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Could you give me an example of that? I'm wracking my brains to think about how I might think about class in my everyday life, and I can't really find anything.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Dunno about that, but right-wing libertarian buffoons I have debated with on other forums didn't seem to get that welfare payments are used to pay for food, rents and various other goods and services that are provided by private sector businesses of various sizes. All part of the "circular-flow".
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Is it necessary to think of class in daily life? We don't think about oxygen, background radiation or bacteria everyday either mind.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No, I don't think it is, which was my point.
But it's still cash, you could spend it on seeds and grow your own food if you wanted. His point was that a massive chunk of welfare money gets siphoned off for the fatcats before it makes it to the jobseekers and that if the benefits system were abolished and replaced with non-cash means of work for food/shelter/whatever schemes billions would be saved and there would be no unemployed.
I would guess that your attitude to your job, especially how you came to have it and what you would do if it vanished, are entirely determined by your economic classification.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, turn on the tv - the news is on. A public school person is reading it for us. They are the voice of authority. 'We' know that 'we' can't get jobs like that. You go to the shop to get your milk or teabags and you think what a rip-off, £2.29 for 80 bags, you thieves. And that's just the small stuff that is seen as natural.
Every time a political decision is made and we ponder it, there is a class consideration that is either consciously or subconsciously working away.
Free schools? Class.
Benefit restrictions? Class.
Public sector pay rises? Class.
Sell-off of Forestry Commission land? Class class class.
Free schools? Class.
Benefit restrictions? Class.
Public sector pay rises? Class.
Sell-off of Forestry Commission land? Class class class.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes. I'm not saying class doesn't exist, just that people ime don't think about their own lives in class terms very often. I'd be fucked if I lost my job. That doesn't really say anything - and the particular way I would be fucked would be my particular way.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
If you spent it on seeds you'd buy them from a seed-seller, and then you'd need to buy shovels and nutrients and a decent hydroponics kit and lights... maybe I'm thinking of a different type of grow-op there tbf.
I agree with what you're saying though, that's basically a critic of capitalism itself really.
That's untrue, lots of TV people were born in working class families, yeah their voices got posh but thats just telly voice
£2.29 for milk AND 80 teabags! thats a bargain, i guess you don't do the shopping in your house!
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
No, I'm actually referring to the underlying attitude that people have to their jobs. How did you get yours? How come you are a whatever it is, and not a doctor or a bricklayer?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Right, ok. Yes, in that sense, one is certainly aware of one's circumstances in that way.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Maybe if there was some form of building where poor people could go and do work in exchange for food and shelter you mean?
If you spent it on seeds you'd buy them from a seed-seller, and then you'd need to buy shovels and nutrients and a decent hydroponics kit and lights... maybe I'm thinking of a different type of grow-op there tbf.
I agree with what you're saying though, that's basically a critic of capitalism itself really.
No I'm talking about food, taking dole money and growing food in your yard to sell is legal, drugs and tobacco not legal but you can see the point, you don't have to spend the dole on the private sector businesses
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Limitation in 'our' heads, who knows how many news-readers come from 'working class' backgrounds, so long as they speak BBC and got their 2:1 Social Science degree or whatever it is and a bit of luck they're fine.
I only buy fair trade T-bags, and Yorkshire can fuck off.
We could call it a 'house' to make it sound friendly and welcoming.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
I'm fairly certain that Cafe Direct teabags have more caffine in than most other teabags....they are also cheaper than Yorkshire.
No, I mean abolishing money and having a labour credit exchange system. A window cleaner earns 3 point per house - he can exchange 10 credits for an hours babysitting, that kind of thing. Could extend to food and drink.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Irrelevant whether it's true or not. And it is true of the prestigious news. It's that people think in those terms - and they do.
£2.29 for the tetleys alone, you can get PG tips for £1.29 - that's a choice that class enters into.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
You could represent the points with little metal disks
How many newsreaders DO come from working class backgrounds?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I wasn't really talking about that. I didn't say that people don't have lives with certain characteristics, just that most people don't think about class very often, that's all.
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