'Middle Class' it's basically just a construct isn't it...

[littlebabyjesus]

Working class = unqualified/low skilled.
Middle class = went to university.
Upper class = family connections to old money.

All of which are entirely irrelevant to an individuals income/freetime equation.

You've left a whole chunk of people out of that! low skilled or went to uni? Are those the only choices?

 

[butchersapron]

Does this mean race affects the way you perceive peoples 'class'?

I hate the whole concept and agree with the OP to a large extent. I see people who believe themselves to belong to an upper class who have less money and freetime than myself (who they probably perceive as being the lowest possible class - sort of 'sub working class). Then I see people who are very proud of their working class roots who drive Range Rovers, have big houses without mortgage and more freetime and spare cash than they know what to do with.

If we're talking about the UK and it's fairly unique class values, then skin colour is an issue. The upper class is the old school - all white. However, people have married into higher circles regardless.

From where I look (and I really don't understand the concept) I see:

Working class = unqualified/low skilled.
Middle class = went to university.
Upper class = family connections to old money.

All of which are entirely irrelevant to an individuals income/freetime equation.

No, it means that being glibly liberal doesn't change a damn thing in the real world - not without a recognition of a) how things actually operate and b) why.

 

[Crispy]

I challenge you to say that out loud in a WMC in any part of the UK you choose.

Quite. Watch a machinist at work and tell me he's not skilled.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

I challenge you to say that out loud in a WMC in any part of the UK you choose.

I've had highly skilled tradesmen look down on me, and see me as inferior because I'm unskilled.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

I challenge you to say that out loud in a WMC in any part of the UK you choose.

Well, of course. That is actually my point. I can't see any real way to pigeon hole people by class. How unskilled is a bricklayer?

Anyway, now I have to go and paint walls, so I guess I'm working class for this afternoon at least. It's good to know your place

 

[butchersapron]

Quite. Watch a machinist at work and tell me he's not skilled.

She

 

[Crispy]

She

they

 

[weltweit]

People will continue to give life to these classifications if they feel them somehow useful to their arguments.

For the time being, it seems they do, and they have done for a long time.

 

[butchersapron]

People will continue to give life to these classifications if they feel them somehow useful to their arguments.

For the time being, it seems they do, and they have done for a long time.

People will continue to give life to gravity if they feel it somehow useful to their arguments.

 

[kabbes]

People will continue to give life to gravity if they feel it somehow useful to their arguments.

And other human-constructed concepts like "justice", "education" and "religion".

 

[butchersapron]

Stop giving life to things people!

 

[love detective]

As, in religion, man is governed by the products of his own brain, so in capitalistic production, he is governed by the products of his own hand

 

[stuff_it]

As, in religion, man is governed by the products of his own brain, so in capitalistic production, he is governed by the products of his own hand

Tell that to the sweatshop workers.

 

[weltweit]

What do you think of yourself as?

To all..

 

[stuff_it]

What do you think of yourself as?

To all..

You first, give reasons.

 

[danny la rouge]

Does 'upper class' require heritage? Is it something you have to be born into?

Whenever class is discussed, there are always several different models at play. Using the term "upper class" is a give-away that you're thinking along the lines of a particular - outdated - model. "Upper class" generally means aristocracy, or at least landed gentry. This class hasn't been the one with the power for a very long time. The class that has had the power since the industrial revolution (and arguably since the Glorious Revolution) has tried to emulate the social mores of the "upper class" (and constantly fails, to the amusement of the UC. c/f Mrs Middleton's faux pas at the palace).

 

[danny la rouge]

What do you think of yourself as?

To all..

I'm petite bourgeois, because I'm self employed. You?

 

[weltweit]

You first, give reasons.

Well my parents were middle class, I dropped out a bit putting that at jepardy but I have a degree and have worked as a manager on a reasonable salary so I think of myself as middle class also.

However I notice I now have less in common with many middle class people, because perhaps I work in industry rather than the law, publishing, teaching, the city etc etc

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Whenever class is discussed, there are always several different models at play. Using the term "upper class" is a give-away that you're thinking along the lines of a particular - outdated - model. "Upper class" generally means aristocracy, or at least landed gentry. This class hasn't been the one with the power for a very long time. The class that has had the power since the industrial revolution (and arguably since the Glorious Revolution) has tried to emulate the social mores of the "upper class" (and constantly fails, to the amusement of the UC. c/f Mrs Middleton's faux pas at the palace).

But you can't call such people 'middle class', can you? Seems to me that the term usually covers such a wide range of people that it isn't all that useful.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well my parents were middle class, I dropped out a bit putting that at jepardy but I have a degree and have worked as a manager on a reasonable salary so I think of myself as middle class also.

However I notice I now have less in common with many middle class people, because perhaps I work in industry rather than the law, publishing, teaching, the city etc etc

You are, however, a manager, whether or not you eat avocado salad and listen to radio 4.

 

[danny la rouge]

But you can't call such people 'middle class', can you? Seems to me that the term usually covers such a wide range of people that it isn't all that useful.

Which people? The Aristocracy? No, you can't, and I don't.

 

[stuff_it]

I'm petite bourgeois, because I'm self employed. You?

Rather difficult - both my parents were academics, but quite skint and fairly insane so I haven't ever had any help from my family and couldn't go to university or finish my a-levels, instead I went travelling (in the dirty hippy sense) as I could afford my own home for £50. Currently I am out of work and studying part time, my boyfriend (who is a truck mechanic) supports me. Also I live in a truck. The degree I'm doing is engineering, and I've never worked in a managerial or team leader role though I expect that I will at some point in the future.

What class am I?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No the likes of the Middletons.

 

[weltweit]

You are, however, a manager, whether or not you eat avocado salad and listen to radio 4.

But I do, I listen to Radio 4

So is there a specific class for managers?

 

[danny la rouge]

No the likes of the Middletons.

Her Dad is a company owner reportedly worth £30 million, who went to a Public School. He is bourgeois.

 

[danny la rouge]

But I do, I listen to Radio 4

So is there a specific class for managers?

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

 

[weltweit]

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

I have!!! I've been paying loads of attention!!

 

[kabbes]

Rather difficult - both my parents were academics, but quite skint and fairly insane so I haven't ever had any help from my family and couldn't go to university or finish my a-levels, instead I went travelling (in the dirty hippy sense) as I could afford my own home for £50. Currently I am out of work and studying part time, my boyfriend (who is a truck mechanic) supports me. Also I live in a truck. The degree I'm doing is engineering, and I've never worked in a managerial or team leader role though I expect that I will at some point in the future.

What class am I?

Do you have any idea how many threads we've had that have been full of people saying, "But this is me, what class am I?" I think you'll find people are most likely fed up of answering it.

How about this? As a default, if you have to ask then you're probably lower middle.

 

[danny la rouge]

I have!!! I've been paying loads of attention!!

OK, well butchersapron made a post which quite clearly outlined the position of managers.

 

[butchersapron]

But you can't call such people 'middle class', can you? Seems to me that the term usually covers such a wide range of people that it isn't all that useful.

You agreed with me earlier about the existence of a middle class didn't you? Are you saying here just that a particular definition or usage is wrong or that idea full stop?