Mass stabbing at Southport Kids’ Club 29/7/24

[Pickman's model]

If you strip out the religious Islamic incidents, the homicide rate in the UK is 50% lower than it was even 20 years ago and you have to go back to Derrick Bird in 2010, and the 80's before that for other examples of indiscriminate mass murder.

How easily Dunblane is forgotten

 

[teqniq]

Yeah, I have long experience of the brokenness of mental health services.

Not surprised to hear that you and your colleagues are demoralised.

I personally am not demoralised, more frustrated than anything else. I was speaking about the staff in the actual services.

 

[Red Cat]

Exactly. Lots of individuals have a profound interest in violence. Some grow out of it, Some weirdos you'd avoid, some write crime fiction. Doesn't mean they're ever going to commit a violent crime. It's unethical and impracticle to keep an eye on them all just in case.

Lots of individuals do not have a profound and obsessive fascination with violence. The issue isn't really violence per se, it's hatred.

And I don't know what people think mental health services do in cases such as these. Our local forensics service does consultation and advises the local CAMHS service, they don't do any direct work. There aren't many specialists in most CAMHS some even employ social workers rather than clinicians because they can't fill nursing posts. Even the people who are qualified to work with such disturbance - my very small profession - can't work with someone who doesn't want to or can't do the work, who has no curiosity about themselves, or doesn't have parents that can support it. But we would be able to tell the difference from 'ordinary' interest in violence and fantasy fuelled by obsessive hatred.

 

[Spymaster]

How easily Dunblane is forgotten

I stand corrected. I thought about it but for some reason thought it was in the 80s.

The point stands though. More people are not being mass-murdered than there used to be ex-terrorism.

 

[andysays]

I don't believe that, Andy.

'The society in which we live' isn't worse now than it's ever been, and the history of serial killers goes back into antiquity. There've always been deranged fuckwits who want to hurt people.

If you strip out the religious Islamic incidents, the homicide rate in the UK is 50% lower than it was even 20 years ago and you have to go back to Derrick Bird in 2010, and the 80's before that for other examples of indiscriminate mass murder.

We're talking somewhat at cross purposes here.

I didn't say that there are more serial killers or indiscriminate mass murders than ever before, I said that (IMO) society is producing more extremely alienated and potentially dangerous people, whether or not they actually end up committing murder.

 

[Red Cat]

I think it's undoubtedly the case that society is more atomised and that many young people are isolated.

I know the school he attended, the snobby parents who couldn't; afford private were I was brought up wanted their children to go to The Range in Formby rather than the comp in Crosby which had loads of kids from working class areas, large council estates. Formby is middle class and very white, and I can see that a black autistic lad there would be subject to bullying.

 

[LakieLady]

Like you I don't know what could have been done, beyond probably just eaissr access to mental heath care in general so maybe his parents could have got him help.

I can't speak for other parts of the country, but in my corner of the south-east ,CAMHS is so over-stretched and under-resourced that an awful lot of those referred reach adulthood before they get further than a basic assessment to determine how urgent they are. Here, they're placed into one of 4 tiers in terms of need, only the top two tiers seem to get any treatment, help or support.

It's a classic false economy imo, because by the time they get passed on to adult MH services, their problems are much more entrenched.

 

[xenon]

e

It disgusts me that the ability to purchase a knife online is a freedom that must be preserved at all costs, even the cost of setting up elaborate and impractical age verification systems. Would it really be a huge imposition to require people who buy knives to do so "in real life" or "face to face" as we say these days.

Yeah it would. Restricting the purchase of legal items online, with age restrictions where appropriate isn't the problem here. Zombie knives and all that shit should be banned however, as they're only purpose is as weapons to be used or glorified. Mr Jones of Acacia Avenue being able to buy a kitchen Devil off Amazon isn't really the thing that disgusts me about this whole thing TBH.

 

[PTK]

e


Yeah it would. Restricting the purchase of legal items online, with age restrictions where appropriate isn't the problem here. Zombie knives and all that shit should be banned however, as they're only purpose is as weapons to be used or glorified. Mr Jones of Acacia Avenue being able to buy a kitchen Devil off Amazon isn't really the thing that disgusts me about this whole thing TBH.

Had Mr Jones of Acacia Avenue lost the ability that he had not so long ago to actually walk into a shop and buy his kitchen knife?

It really is not a huge imposition to ban the sale of knives online.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Restricting the sale of knives will just result in some kid thinking he's an arms dealer selling him mum's Wusthof collection. It won't make an ounce of difference.
.

 

[PTK]

Restricting the sale of knives will just result in some kid thinking he's an arms dealer selling him mum's Wusthof collection. It won't make an ounce of difference.
.

Are you arguing that there should be no restrictions on the purchase of knives. or only no restrictions online? Are you opposed to online age verification procedures?

 

[xenon]

Had Mr Jones of Acacia Avenue lost the ability that he had not so long ago to actually walk into a shop and buy his kitchen knife?

It really is not a huge imposition to ban the sale of knives online.

What does it achieve other than make law abiding people's lives more difficult. Are knives bought on the high street magically not able to be used as weapons some how?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Are you arguing that there should be no restrictions on the purchase of knives. or only no restrictions online? Are you opposed to online age verification procedures?

I'm arguing that neither will make the slightest bit of difference, because it's a fact.
About 30 years ago my mate got stabbed outside a pub. Three entry wounds in the front and only two out the rear, because one didn't make it through. He lived, and we tried to convince him to get "In" and "Out" tattooed at the entry and exit points, but he was having none of it. Anyway, I digress... This wasn't a zombie knife or a machete, it was a bread knife that some cunt had taken to the pub with him because he wanted to stab somebody.
Does your plan involve the collection/surrender of every knife ever made, and new knives issued with serial numbers assigned to licensed knife holders?

 

[burtabraham]

Muslamic ray guns.

Funny in 2010, before it came to light that tens of thousands of girls have been groomed, raped, tortured, and in some cases murdered by actual rape gangs who dehumanised their victims on grounds of religion. So maybe you need to think twice about your witty retorts.

 

[burtabraham]

And the police and courts are covering this up, why?

A misguided belief that community cohesion would be damaged otherwise

 

[xenon]

A misguided belief that community cohesion would be damaged otherwise

This has nothing to do with the grooming gangs. Are you saying this murdering filth is an Islamist? Give us some evidence? Not reckons from someone you heard who's seen him in prison or some shit. At the moment you're looking like someone who wants to believe he's an Islam inspired killer, despite the evidence. You can work out what that makes you look like yourself.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This has nothing to do with the grooming gangs. Are you saying this murdering filth is an Islamist? Give us some evidence? Not reckons from someone you heard who's seen him in prison or some shit. At the moment you're looking like someone who wants to believe he's an Islam inspired killer, despite the evidence. You can work out what that makes you look like yourself.

Oh, I know this one, give me a moment, oh yeah, that's it - a cunt.

 

[burtabraham]

This has nothing to do with the grooming gangs. Are you saying this murdering filth is an Islamist? Give us some evidence? Not reckons from someone you heard who's seen him in prison or some shit. At the moment you're looking like someone who wants to believe he's an Islam inspired killer, despite the evidence. You can work out what that makes you look like yourself.

I don’t want to believe; I do believe. And yes, it’s things I’ve heard from people that are inside. At least one person above has confirmed that he is attending prayers, albeit with the suggestion it might be for protection (which is the only half plausible reply given on this thread so far). I don’t know what other evidence I could provide, being that coverups are a standard way the British state operates.

Truth is, we’ve seen time after time that the teachings of Islam have led to the slaughter of innocents, and we continue to stick our head in the sand. How many more people have to be stabbed, blown up at pop concerts , raped or killed before we realise that it is the religion itself that is the problem?

 

[skyscraper101]

Had Mr Jones of Acacia Avenue lost the ability that he had not so long ago to actually walk into a shop and buy his kitchen knife?

It really is not a huge imposition to ban the sale of knives online.

Yeah because everybody lives near, or can easily travel to shops with an extensive range of kitchen and camping ware. Come on it's blatantly OTT to ban all knife sales online nationwide because of some cunt.

Age restrict sure, zombie knifes absolutely ban, but outright ban on all knife sales no.

 

[Red Cat]

Really, nobody knows what to do. That's why people are talking about irrelevant stuff like being able to buy knives, or not.

 

[xenon]

I don’t want to believe; I do believe. And yes, it’s things I’ve heard from people that are inside. At least one person above has confirmed that he is attending prayers, albeit with the suggestion it might be for protection (which is the only half plausible reply given on this thread so far). I don’t know what other evidence I could provide, being that coverups are a standard way the British state operates.

Truth is, we’ve seen time after time that the teachings of Islam have led to the slaughter of innocents, and we continue to stick our head in the sand. How many more people have to be stabbed, blown up at pop concerts , raped or killed before we realise that it is the religion itself that is the problem?

You tool. There's no cover up here. There are sensible legal reasons why the ricin stuff wasn't known about before,as if it went to jury, that you know, might influence them a bit regards murder charges that did not involve ricin. Also How come we know about the atrocities you mention, being Islamasist inspired if there are cover ups. This is just some sicko who wanted to kill little girls. Lots of peple go to the chapel in prison doesn't make them the Arch Bishop of fucking Canterbery.

 

[editor]

I don’t want to believe; I do believe. And yes, it’s things I’ve heard from people that are inside. At least one person above has confirmed that he is attending prayers, albeit with the suggestion it might be for protection (which is the only half plausible reply given on this thread so far). I don’t know what other evidence I could provide, being that coverups are a standard way the British state operates.

Truth is, we’ve seen time after time that the teachings of Islam have led to the slaughter of innocents, and we continue to stick our head in the sand. How many more people have to be stabbed, blown up at pop concerts , raped or killed before we realise that it is the religion itself that is the problem?

This is racism. There are literally millions upon millions of peaceful followers of Islam.
You may as well conclude that Christianity teaches kids to embark on mass school killings.

 

[burtabraham]

This is racism. There are literally millions upon millions of peaceful followers of Islam.
You may as well conclude that Christianity teaches kids to embark on mass school killings.

Islam isn’t a race. Anyone can convert regardless of their race. It’s an ideology. One that if taken seriously is a form of genuine fascism. The fact that there are nice Muslims is irrelevant. It’s not Muslims that are the problem, it’s Islam.

 

[Glitter]

I don’t want to believe; I do believe. And yes, it’s things I’ve heard from people that are inside. At least one person above has confirmed that he is attending prayers, albeit with the suggestion it might be for protection (which is the only half plausible reply given on this thread so far). I don’t know what other evidence I could provide, being that coverups are a standard way the British state operates.

Truth is, we’ve seen time after time that the teachings of Islam have led to the slaughter of innocents, and we continue to stick our head in the sand. How many more people have to be stabbed, blown up at pop concerts , raped or killed before we realise that it is the religion itself that is the problem?

Oh fuck off, you racist cunt.