maomao
普費斯
He has spent, and probably will spend, his entire adult life in prison so not sure how he could have commited violent offences as an adult before this crime.
Mass stabbing at Southport Kids’ Club 29/7/24
- Thread starter seeformiles
- Start date
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes. As for what should have been done, a referral should have been made to the relevant authorities on each of the three occasions that he was reported to Prevent. Had that not been followed up on then it would be legitimate to ask about resources, why no intervention was made by social services etc and so on. But, on the basis of what I’ve read so far, Prevent decided that he was not an 'appropriate' case and that was the end of it.
There are also questions about what his school did and did not do, and others will have questions to answer as well.
But, if the starting point is ‘well, what can you do, boys will be boys and some have violent fantasies’ then we aren’t going to get far.
Yes he attends prayers in Prison is this because he's a genuine Muslim or because its for hos own safety.
Yes this is what's turning sone people away from genuine left wing class war struggles.It's too early to discount anything really, including that he may have been religiously motivated.
Remember when that cunt went on the rampage in Reading, and prats on here were getting all bent out of shape with others who suggested that the bloke with the Muslim name who shouted allahu akhbar when he stabbed people, might have been religiously motivated?
Probably best for powder to be kept dry all round for the time being.
That certainly isn't my position. I'm asking what powers exist, what could Prevent have done? Have him sectioned? Have him banged up, home arrest, constantly surveilled? If there was no aligned terrorist motive, no idiology, just fucked up obsession with violence. Genuinne question, I don't know but presume being sectioned wasn't an option.
TO earlier point FWIW I haven't found reports of him breaking someone's arm at school so far. The reports I've heard and read so far mention he was expelled after threatening to take a knife into school and taking a hocky stick with people's names on it, threatening violence but not that he injured someone. If so, why wasn't he done for that.
Yes, doesn't fit a known idiology.
Elpenor
Well-Known Member
I am going to guess the referrals are scored and the details in the referral didn’t accrue enough points to merit further investigation. Whereas Muslim or far right probably do
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Here you go:
Get help for radicalisation concerns
Find out how the Prevent programme supports people who are at risk of becoming involved with terrorism through radicalisation.
The question (or one of them) is why didn’t Prevent apparently do any of this having concluded that this scum wasn’t an ’appropriate’ case
Squandering the funding budgetHere you go:
Get help for radicalisation concerns
Find out how the Prevent programme supports people who are at risk of becoming involved with terrorism through radicalisation.www.gov.uk
The question (or one of them) is why didn’t Prevent apparently do any of this having concluded that this scum wasn’t an ’appropriate’ case
Here you go:
Get help for radicalisation concerns
Find out how the Prevent programme supports people who are at risk of becoming involved with terrorism through radicalisation.
The question (or one of them) is why didn’t Prevent apparently do any of this having concluded that this scum wasn’t an ’appropriate’ case
Or why their scope isn't wider. As doesn't look like this bit applies.
"Radicalisation can happen when a person develops extreme views or beliefs that support terrorist groups or activities."
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
That’s a separate question, which Starmer was dribbling on about today. My question is why Prevent pass on the information to the relevant authorities which they are clearly empowered to do
seeformiles
Lost in the wood
I reckon he’s Broadmoor material and will never see freedom again. Too much incoherent rage to be rational.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
He was apparently raised as Christian, and there doesn't seem to be any indication he'd been radicalised into becoming a Muslim extremist terrorist. Just like he'd also apparently accessed info about IRA, and that didn't make him an Irish nationalist terrorist.
From his apparent obsession with death, he and his crimes seem to more fit the serial killer/mass casualty killer mould than politically motivated terrorist.
The Prevent programme is about preventing political terrorism (which includes political terrorism based on religious beliefs).
So at first glance there seems to be a gap in provision. Prevent took more than one look at him, apparently, and he didn't trigger any further steps in terms of risk of political terrorism...
...but then there seemingly wasn't/isn't an appropriate referral process in place to catch a serial killer/mass casualty killer.
But that applies more generally. Not just with this kind of mass casualty killer/serial killer, but also DV.
Because in hindsight, the clues leading up to the killings are (nearly) always there, it's just that there's no system in place equivalent to the Prevent programme for catching other killers if it's VAWG or a wannabe serial killer, before they fulfil their fantasies.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Article I posted the other day from some year back includes stuff that makes it clear those arent the only categories of interest, and the rise in numbers of a blurrier mixed category.
It already seems clear that Prevent will be criticised as failing in a number of different ways, as will some other parts of the system. So I'm not trying to suggest that they've dealt with this MUU category of referrals properly, only that this category, this tickable box, already exists and there are some statistics about it.
The stats in the 2021 article Im on about does give us a sense of what a low proportion of MUU cases ended up being adopted as channel cases compared to the number of referrals back then. I have not had time to seek out any newer articles or more up to date data.
Quotes are from ‘Staggeringly high’ number of autistic people on UK Prevent scheme
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