Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[cesare]

Eddie Izzard is a vile Blairite imo

He's more amusing than Blair and his Blairitism - if that's a thing - doesn't detract from the point.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep, and I see no reason to disbelieve IS when they say that the targets were carefully chosen.

 

[J Ed]

Especially to your Irish colleagues.

Yes, that is a good point of course, which is perhaps why the English flag is more suitable given that it isn't association with imperialism.

 

[8den]

I'd back any artificial intelligence over your very real stupidity.

Pst they were movies. I know you have trouble differentiating fantasy & reality.

 

[Athos]

Pst they were movies. I know you have trouble differentiating fantasy & reality.

For you, Dumb and Dumber is a reality.

 

[agricola]

Yep, and I see no reason to disbelieve IS when they say that the targets were carefully chosen.

Why not? Such a statement might have been plausible after the Hebdo murders (and even then it is debatable), but not with these attacks.

 

[cesare]

More good stuff from Kenan Malik.

"The cafes, restaurants, bars and music venue that were attacked - Le Carillon, La Belle Equipe, Le Petit Cambodge, and the Jewish-owned Bataclan - are in the 10th and 11th arrondissements, areas that, though increasingly gentrified, remain ethnically and culturally mixed and still with a working-class presence.

[...] the Stade de France, like France's national football team, also has great cultural resonance. "Les Bleus" - as the team is known - are seen by many as an embodiment of multicultural France, a team consisting of "noir, blanc, beur" (black, white, Arab) players. [...]

What the terrorists despised, what they tried to eliminate, were ordinary people drinking, eating, laughing, and mixing. That is what they hated - not so much the French state as the values of diversity and pluralism."

Exactly.

There wouldn't have been the same mass grief outpouring and solidarity if they'd restricted their carnage to politicians and others of the ruling class - agreed. Not rocket science though isit "carefully chosen".

 

[8den]

Especially to your Irish colleagues.

Or to any country who was viciously oppressed by the British say in the last 100 years. Plenty of people around the world associate the Union Jack with imperialism & jingoism.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why not? Such a statement might have been plausible after the Hebdo murders (and even then it is debatable), but not with these attacks.

Because, as Malik points out, they may have been 'easy' targets but they weren't random.

I am still hopeful that the tactic will backfire, that we will see a strengthening of movements to unite people, that picking on the very people who do not seek division will prove a bad miscalculation.

 

[danny la rouge]

So .. 3 of the people who blew themselves to bits last night were from a place called Molenbeek in Belgium?
Looks lovely from google maps, perfectly tidy, no idea why anyone living there would feel, you know, atomised or go on the internet for a sense of meaning & identity / belonging in the world.

View attachment 79649

One of the points from the long Malik piece I linked to is that it's not about social inequality, but social disengagement.

 

[J Ed]

Because, as Malik points out, they may have been 'easy' targets but they weren't random.

I am still hopeful that the tactic will backfire, that we will see a strengthening of movements to unite people, that picking on the very people who do not seek division will prove a bad miscalculation.

I hope that you are right but I suspect that you aren't given the surge of support for the Front National following the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

 

[Pickman's model]

That is shorthand.

yeh,stenography

 

[bimble]

Because, as Malik points out, they may have been 'easy' targets but they weren't random.
I am still hopeful that the tactic will backfire, that we will see a strengthening of movements to unite people, that picking on the very people who do not seek division will prove a bad miscalculation.

I'd double like your post if i could but sadly ( as in x11 sadly) i think division & polarisation is most of the point of the action last night.

 

[weltweit]

From your link: "Syrian passports are known to be valuable currency amongst those trying to enter Europe, and it is not yet confirmed whether the holder of the passport is indeed the perpetrator."

It wasn't my link.

Everyone carries ID.

When we last had proposals for ID cards in the UK, one of the arguments was that it would be harder for terrorists to operate if there were ID Cards in force. Didn't make much difference here did it!

I thought france germany and italy all had national ID card schemes anyway, non passport but state led and good enough to travel on/placate a policeman

See above.

Yep, and I see no reason to disbelieve IS when they say that the targets were carefully chosen.

They might have been carefully chosen, but instead of entering the stadium and getting close to Holland who could be described as a primary target, the terrorists blew themselves up outside.

 

[cesare]

One of the points from the long Malik piece I linked to is that it's not about social inequality, but social disengagement.

I guess the aftermath social engagement resulting from friends and neighbours being mown down is something that governments in the near vicinity, mostly Europe, are now quite anxious to focus on the aggressor rather than the ruling class that caused the conflicts.

 

[J Ed]

I'd double like your post if i could but sadly ( as in x11 sadly) i think division & polarisation is most of the point of the action last night.

The terrorists who murdered Lee Rigby explicitly said that they wanted a backlash against ordinary Muslims as a result.

 

[frogwoman]

Daesh explicilty want polarisation its a stated part of their strategy.

 

[8den]

For you, Dumb and Dumber is a reality.

Lloyd & Harry are in MENSA compared to you.

Now please desist, you're not even remotely amusing (oh and to answer your next post, yes in fact you DID start it, by being unnecessarily obnoxious to OU)

 

[agricola]

Because, as Malik points out, they may have been 'easy' targets but they weren't random.

I see your (and his) point, but that really is the wrong sort of phrase to describe what went on. It brings to mind the usual media platitudes about the attackers being highly disciplined / expertly-trained etc etc; which may well have some relevance further down the line, but should really never be used in the initial reporting of an incident where what they have done is gone to a busy part of a capital city at night, shot up two unarmed restaurants and executed dozens of unarmed music fans.

 

[bimble]

One of the points from the long Malik piece I linked to is that it's not about social inequality, but social disengagement.

Your Malik lecture has helped me make the connection between what just happened and that tidy but uniform street in Brussels, re the search for identity and belonging.

 

[mather]

The terrorists who murdered Lee Rigby explicitly said that they wanted a backlash against ordinary Muslims as a result.

Daesh explicilty want polarisation its a stated part of their strategy.

A classic example of the strategy of tension. It was used in Italy during the 60s and 70s.

 

[Athos]

Lloyd & Harry are in MENSA compared to you.

Lame.

 

[DrRingDing]

Daesh explicilty want polarisation its a stated part of their strategy.

And you wonder why I oppose flag waving?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Daesh explicilty want polarisation its a stated part of their strategy.

Yep, and it can't be said often enough, I don't think. This has to be the response to the challenge of the likes of le Pen - she is doing their work for them, do not give in to this.

 

[DrRingDing]

Yep, and it can't be said often enough, I don't think. This has to be the response to the challenge of the likes of le Pen - she is doing their work for them, do not give in to this.

But romanticise a flag to your hearts content?

 

[danny la rouge]

Daesh explicilty want polarisation its a stated part of their strategy.

This is something that we have to keep repeating. It's depressing to watch people on social media walking right into their carefully set, but anything but secret, trap.

 

[frogwoman]

Theres a report ive posted here before showing that on average in a single month 5000 people die every month from jihadist violence, the overwhelming majority of these are muslim civilians from poor countries.

All reaping what they sow obviously.

Sometimes this place makes me sick

 

[8den]

They might have been carefully chosen, but instead of entering the stadium and getting close to Holland who could be described as a primary target, the terrorists blew themselves up outside.

For starts even 8 trained terrorists aren't going to get close to Holland.

Secondly I thought it was common knowledge that the preferred tactic of Islamic extremists to maximise civilian casualties to terrorise populations and to alienate Muslim communities to drive young Muslims to become home grown extremists

 

[J Ed]

Yep, and it can't be said often enough, I don't think. This has to be the response to the challenge of the likes of le Pen - she is doing their work for them, do not give in to this.

Not just Le Pen or Nigel Farage but supposedly centre-right politicians and 'journalists' like Douglas Murray, Liam Fox and Michael Gove. That's before we even get to Eastern Europe where those actually in government, some of those Poland and other governments in the region are open believers in Eurabia conspiracy theories

 

[Citizen66]

Or to any country who was viciously oppressed by the British say in the last 100 years. Plenty of people around the world associate the Union Jack with imperialism & jingoism.

I agree, I just couldn't be arsed writing all that on my phone.