cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I expect you do. But my point was that the degree of registration and control of citizen movement maps quite closely to authoritarian/fascist regimes past and/or present.
Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah. Except Belgium and Austria. But yes, there is a correlation. Surprising in a way that the likes of Greece, Portugal, Spain keep this despite their history.
Difficult to get rid of it once it's there (although the UK did it after WWII), which is why I was so relieved when the UK abandoned its ID card. Technically 'voluntary' can quickly become effectively compulsory.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Stenography would be easily detected.
You can post me some microdots under a postage stamp though
I suspect they just did it. Wembley did it pretty early last night because of the football connection (I imagine) and it's one of those things that's followed suit by others.
It's happened in Australia as well.
Also it's good PR isn't it.
I think you are over thinking this.
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I don't think it's that surprising tbf. It's what people become accustomed to. They stop questioning it. We're right up there with monitoring (authoritarian by the back door) but people aren't vandalising the plethora of CCTVs as a matter of course.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, especially considering there's a match there with France next week.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep, very true.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Or not.
Maybe I should unfriend all these anti-racists and organised refugee helpers for this heinous crime?
bimble
floofy
Is underthinking a word?
if it is that might be the problem. I prefer this to the flag too but, you know, yes they just did it
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chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
When I lived in France I wasn't really aware of the need to carry ID, so I didn't.
When I lived in Portugal I knew. But deliberately didn't carry ID. I also crossed over to Spain at regular intervals to (in my daft mind anyway) avoid the "continuous residence" that would've meant that I had to register with the police.
However when I lived in Italy I was fully legit. Registered. Had an ID card and carried it.
I had different lifestyles and thus different needs in each place.
But in none of them was ever pulled over on the street and asked for my ID.
Privilege duly checked instead.
(Though it happened enough to me outside Europe, but that's a whole other story).
When I lived in Portugal I knew. But deliberately didn't carry ID. I also crossed over to Spain at regular intervals to (in my daft mind anyway) avoid the "continuous residence" that would've meant that I had to register with the police.
However when I lived in Italy I was fully legit. Registered. Had an ID card and carried it.
I had different lifestyles and thus different needs in each place.
But in none of them was ever pulled over on the street and asked for my ID.
Privilege duly checked instead.
(Though it happened enough to me outside Europe, but that's a whole other story).
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The Union Flag is just that, the national flag of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is not the 'property' of any group of fundamentalist extremists, be they Orangemen or BNF.
The national flag, it belongs to the country, and everyone within the country. Rather than shunning the flag, because it has been hijacked by vermin, exterminate the vermin.
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Stenography would be easily detected.
You can post me some microdots under a postage stamp though
Stenography is the act of capturing speech, verbatim, by the use of an appropriate machine.
I know the word you mean, just cannot quite... is it 'stetanography' or something like that?
You won't like how Wembley is lit up tonight, DrRingDing .
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I'm guessing you're not top of the hit list for SAS, produce dox etc? (Yeah I know you checked your privilege
)
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Just tell them to stop being such daft twats.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Honestly I have come to agree with this point of view. The British and English flags really are potent symbols of the people of the country, not just the state and its aggressive militarism. The left does far too much swimming against the tide, I can't help but feel that seeing a few more Union Flags or English flags at anti-cuts rallies and on picket lines would do a world of good in terms of PR. The vultures in the main parties cloak themselves in the flag while destroying the country and robbing its people bit by bit, I think we could do more to make a link between the fact that defending public services and the workers of this country is one of the greatest acts of patriotism there is.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
That is shorthand.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
[/S]Even though they come from a good place? I'll give that bit of sanctimony a miss tbh.
teqniq
DisMembered
I like the article I think it makes some valid points however:
I think Malik overlooks the fact that the French state and the French military by their very nature are going to be very well-protected indeed. So essentially it is easier to attack soft targets. It also generates the climate of fear as he says and makes for a much bigger publicity coup rather than say an attempted attack directly on the state which would be much more likely to be doomed to failure.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think patriotism is difficult for a lot of British people on the left at least. I certainly find it difficult given the causes it has been put to work for. It does have a lot of baggage - the Queen for starters - and I actually quite like feeling ambivalent about it in a way. Chomsky has said that it is a strength of the UK, perversely, that it has such a clearly illegitimate power structure that nobody is truly expected to 'serve the queen' as a 'loyal subject'. It's different in places like France and the US, where explicitly patriotic things are taught in schools. I'm glad we don't have that.
bimble
floofy
So .. 3 of the people who blew themselves to bits last night were from a place called Molenbeek in Belgium?
Looks lovely from google maps, perfectly tidy, no idea why anyone living there would feel, you know, atomised or go on the internet for a sense of meaning & identity / belonging in the world.
Looks lovely from google maps, perfectly tidy, no idea why anyone living there would feel, you know, atomised or go on the internet for a sense of meaning & identity / belonging in the world.
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cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Especially to your Irish colleagues.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
More good stuff from Kenan Malik.
"The cafes, restaurants, bars and music venue that were attacked - Le Carillon, La Belle Equipe, Le Petit Cambodge, and the Jewish-owned Bataclan - are in the 10th and 11th arrondissements, areas that, though increasingly gentrified, remain ethnically and culturally mixed and still with a working-class presence.
[...] the Stade de France, like France's national football team, also has great cultural resonance. "Les Bleus" - as the team is known - are seen by many as an embodiment of multicultural France, a team consisting of "noir, blanc, beur" (black, white, Arab) players. [...]
What the terrorists despised, what they tried to eliminate, were ordinary people drinking, eating, laughing, and mixing. That is what they hated - not so much the French state as the values of diversity and pluralism."
Exactly.
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