Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[elbows]

It's the glue that's potent enough for them to declare the Islamic caliphate...
Again, in your eyes it seems to be only a step from acknowledging this and the threat of some form of anti-Islamic fascism. In actual fact it implies nothing, as you'll see as Europe and the US carry on muddling through in the same old way. They'll inflict some damage (while bending over backwards to remind us that 'it's really nothing to do with Islam' - and what else can they do?), ISIS and co will splinter and regroup and carry on, under a different label, with the same shit, and we the rabble will continue to anguish over it.

No, its not that. It's the fact there has been no shortage of acknowledgement of this side of the shit for about 14 years now. If I'm downplaying its, its not because I think its irrelevant or that for someone to acknowledge it for the 8 billionth time since 2001 represents a new threat towards the innocent.

Here's one for you. Lets think in terms of a pool of people who might potentially end up committing an act of bloody terror. Some may end up in this pool, at least in part, due to some violent interpretation of Islamic teachings. But how many Muslims never get anywhere near that pool, at least in part, because of some of their Islamic beliefs?

 

[butchersapron]

I can't believe we are back at the w/c of the middleast- 1/5 of the world just being just ISIS material.

Jimmy is coming from a materialist background as well.

 

[elbows]

Can we, to make this useful, point out the exact connection between islam and extremists.

Actually first can we agree that there is one? It's clearly a lie to deny that ISIS have nothing to with islam, in the same way it's a lie to say that what they are not doing is about islam.

Certainly. To take just one very small example, the concept of Jihad has clearly been fertile ground for the promotion and justification of all manner of things across a very wide spectrum.

I think I just ran out of energy for tonight, but I try to relate the idea of a caliphate to one I'm more familiar with, the laughable idea of a golden age gone by that can be restored.

 

[Humberto]

I can't believe we are back at the w/c of the middleast- 1/5 of the world just being just ISIS material.

Jimmy is coming from a materialist background as well.

Well you are valuable mate, always enjoy you posts though I don't always get them straight away.

 

[butchersapron]

Well you are valuable mate, always enjoy you posts though I don't always get them straight away.

No worries good luck lad

 

[elbows]

I can't believe we are back at the w/c of the middleast- 1/5 of the world just being just ISIS material.

Jimmy is coming from a materialist background as well.

I suppose I can believe it because the last year or so has been like a horrific hollywood reboot of the war on terror franchise.

 

[J Ed]

I suppose I can believe it because the last year or so has been like a horrific hollywood reboot of the war on terror franchise.

Speaking of the individuals on the ground, well, the ones on the ground controlling what's in the skies...

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/20/exclusive_2_air_force_vets_speak

 

[butchersapron]

I suppose I can believe it because the last year or so has been like a horrific hollywood reboot of the war on terror franchise.

It has. I think it's easy to forget how much if you're sort of inside it what outside is like. And Paris was chosen because outside. But then we're in them. The 4 piece thing in the daily bleed about the ex-isis operative, don't believe a word of it.

 

[Cheesypoof]

a powerful article in the Irish Independent today

Taoiseach must hold Saudi Arabia and Iran to account over support for extremism - Independent.ie

 

[butchersapron]

Speaking of the individuals on the ground, well, the ones on the ground controlling what's in the skies...

Exclusive: 2 Air Force Vets Speak Out for First Time on Why They Want the Drone War to Stop | Democracy Now!

That bloke is broken. But still doing the right thing.

 

[butchersapron]

a powerful article in the Irish Independent today

Taoiseach must hold Saudi Arabia and Iran to account over support for extremism - Independent.ie

Do you agree with it?

 

[Cheesypoof]

Do you agree with it?

have you read it?

 

[butchersapron]

Of course.

You brought it here - why?

 

[butchersapron]

That bloke is broken. But still doing the right thing.

2nd one too.

 

[butchersapron]

All the shit in the world on the internet is being moderated by people in shit mod centres who get less than 0.000000000000111p For each decision. All the stuff you can't see they're paid to see.

 

[miktheword]

eh.....

Don't bother - mucking fuppet.

Was your unquoted post directed at me?
If so your lack of cultural knowledge of spurs should embarrass you
as for the pathetic mucking fuppet...let's have a proper private chat. .and find out who the real muppet is..

 

[Ax^]

seems like the right place for football tribalism

 

[Dogsauce]

Can we, to make this useful, point out the exact connection between islam and extremists.

Actually first can we agree that there is one? It's clearly a lie to deny that ISIS have nothing to with islam, in the same way it's a lie to say that what they are not doing is about islam.

So who here knows enough about that?

This one?

Is there not a stronger connection between war and extremism? Does highlighting Islam as a cause/justification not downplay this link? Is it useful that it does so?

 

[bimble]

You only have to look at how the Salafi groups fall out between themselves to see how warped that view of the religion is, in which everyone is wrong except them.

Isn't that a fairly common view amongst people of every religion (the one about everyone is wrong and doomed to eternal damnation except me and people who agree with me)? Kind of goes with the territory.

 

[coley]

a powerful article in the Irish Independent today

Taoiseach must hold Saudi Arabia and Iran to account over support for extremism - Independent.ie

Casually Red said much the same a few pages back, no doubt if ISIS gets to the stage where they can offer to buy a couple of dozen Typhoons from us we will find a way to 'recognise' them as a legitimate state.

 

[Teaboy]

Casually Red said much the same a few pages back, no doubt if ISIS gets to the stage where they can offer to buy a couple of dozen Typhoons from us we will find a way to 'recognise' them as a legitimate state.

Nah, I don't think so. They've gone too far, they are masters at picking a fight with everyone - I mean they even killed a Chinese guy the other day. They'll be 'defeated', shave their beards off and keep their heads down until the next nutty death cult gets a toehold somewhere.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Casually Red said much the same a few pages back, no doubt if ISIS gets to the stage where they can offer to buy a couple of dozen Typhoons from us we will find a way to 'recognise' them as a legitimate state.

Oil-for-arms - might just work

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 79854

yeh. you seem to think there is something singular about muslims, something noteworthy about them using holy books to justify their actions: and tbh you seem to be more than a tad islamophobic. wouldn't be surprised if we lost the pleasure of your company quite soon.

 

[Pickman's model]

They are Wahabbi inspired. Are you trying to claim they're not Islamic when it's Wahabbis who control the holy shrines and all that tosh?

Pointing out that ISIS wouldn't exist without Islam is hardly starting an argument.

you seem to be ignoring the number of senior baathists in isis. i suppose they don't fit the agenda you're pursuing.

 

[weltweit]

Brussels on highest terror alert
Brussels terror alert based on fears of 'Paris-style attack' - BBC News

 

[Idris2002]

Has it really only been a week? It feels like years.

 

[leanderman]

For what it is worth, The Economist argues the repsonse should be:

More surveillance, with safeguards
More resources for 'weak link' security forces such as Belgium's
Enhanced EU perimeter border force
Flight data sharing between states
But no fresh curbs on refugees

More trainers and special forces in Syria
Avoid getting into bed with Putin
Potentially, a UN or even Western ground force

Federalising Iraq and Syria along ethnic or sectarian lines

And some hopeful stuff about removing Assad and persuading neighbouring states to stop interfering.

 

[coley]

For what it is worth, The Economist argues the repsonse should be:

More surveillance, with safeguards
More resources for 'weak link' security forces such as Belgium's
Enhanced EU perimeter border force
Flight data sharing between states
But no fresh curbs on refugees

More trainers and special forces in Syria
Avoid getting into bed with Putin
Potentially, a UN or even Western ground force

Federalising Iraq and Syria along ethnic or sectarian lines

And some hopeful stuff about removing Assad and persuading neighbouring states to stop interfering.

Sensible enough, with the exception of a "UN or western ground force" to much chance of ISIS producing successful "crusader" propaganda, though deploying such in Mali and surrounding areas would probably be quite effective.

 

[andysays]

Sensible enough, with the exception of a "UN or western ground force" to much chance of ISIS producing successful "crusader" propaganda, though deploying such in Mali and surrounding areas would probably be quite effective.

Sounds to me that "predictable" would be a better description than "sensible", and that as far as it addresses the issues in Syria and the wider region, it's merely suggesting that Western Powers impose their idea of a solution, regardless of what the people of Syria themselves, or their neighbours, might want, and regardless of actual developments in resistance to both the Assad regime and ISIS, which others here are far better able to comment on than me.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Informative.



Yeah, I'm not saying that nobody in Daesh ever uses encryption, ever. But if the recent attacks in Paris were all locally arranged on a face-to-face basis, then I can certainly understand why they wouldn't have even needed to encrypt communications.

Frankly, given the non-"real time" nature of state decryption, then some "terrorist events" will always get through the net, so this insistence on banning encryption, to act as a means to put a break on terrorist activity, is a "seen to be doing something" action .
The most effective method under which terrorists can organise and plot is still the "cell", and reliance on old comms methods like dead letter drops, and using unencrypted comms methods is also likely to be less revealing, especially if you're using cheap phones and "burning" them after 24-48 hours of use.