Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[bimble]

maybe you genuinely aren't, which would go some way to explaining why you're all over the place.

Threadwise or belated political education-wise?

 

[Pickman's model]

Threadwise or belated political education-wise?

if you have to ask the question you already know the answer.

 

[Jimmy Turr]

there you go, you are pursuing an agenda. pity you're not entertaining anyone else.

I didn't realize that logging on and posting some seriously meant and not so seriously meant comments was pursuing an agenda. Maybe I've spent my whole life missing the fact that all waking activity is the pursuing of an agenda?

In a short while I'm gonna pursue the agenda of having a bite to eat and then a nap. And then the agenda of watching a televised match and getting pissed.

 

[bimble]

if you have to ask the question you already know the answer.

I know I'm new but never seen you use a smiley before. I feel honoured that you've stooped so low on my behalf. Yes I'm new, and ignorant, and you're welcome to haze me at will

 

[Pickman's model]

As far as I understand it, all can find justification for their actions in the Koran, whether it's the Wahabbis or the relatively benign Ahmmadiyanns (sp.) Or at least if they claim they can that's enough.

even the 'ahmmadiyanns' only 'relatively benign'. and you're not islamophobic

 

[Pickman's model]

I know I'm new but never seen you use a smiley before. I feel honoured that you've stooped so low on my behalf. Yes I'm new, and ignorant, and you're welcome to haze me at will

better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you a fool than open it and prove yourself one.

 

[bimble]

I didn't realize that logging on and posting some seriously meant and not so seriously meant comments was pursuing an agenda. Maybe I've spent my whole life missing the fact that all waking activity is the pursuing of an agenda?

In a short while I'm gonna pursue the agenda of having a bite to eat and then a nap. And then the agenda of watching a televised match and getting pissed.

Ye well if you can squeeze it in (just in case you're actually interested in the thing you've been saying here) try reading that article x

 

[bimble]

better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you a fool than open it and prove yourself one.

But that's why I like it here, you have to show your workings.

 

[Jimmy Turr]

even the 'ahmmaiyanns' only 'relatively benign'. and you're not islamophobic

What is Islamophobia apart from an invented category designed to quash any questioning of Islam from whichever direction?

I don't think Islam, as many aspects of the societies where it holds sway illustrate, is particularly benign (although parts of it might be), even though most Muslims I know are (lefties and radical progressives would once have had no problem in recognizing this.) Maybe that's because of the thankfully impractical nature of the ideology/faith in relation to modern western society.

I'm so 'Islamophobic' that I was invited to an Islamic wedding back in August.* The bride was so intolerant that she married a white non-Muslim.

*It was a right pisser that we couldn't drink alcohol in the restaurant afterwards, though.

 

[Jimmy Turr]

Ye well if you can squeeze it in (just in case you're actually interested in the thing you've been saying here) try reading that article x

I will, but I just don't know when yet. I have read similar to what your quote seems to suggest it contains before.

 

[bimble]

What is Islamophobia

Just before you go (and I love a nap as must as the next person) - here's another for your reading list. It's someone trying to help answer that exact question but, you know, only if you can watch the match and read at same time, which probably not. WHEN DOES CRITICISM OF ISLAM BECOME ISLAMOPHOBIA?

 

[Jimmy Turr]

Just before you go (and I love a nap as must as the next person) - here's another for your reading list. It's someone trying to help answer that exact question but, you know, only of you can watch the match and read at same time, which probably not. WHEN DOES CRITICISM OF ISLAM BECOME ISLAMOPHOBIA?

Without reading it, I think I can already answer that question: never. That's because no ideology or faith etc is ever beyond criticism.

Everybody else has to put up with criticism and the denigrating of their beliefs and idols after all. Most of us just shrug our shoulders and say something along the lines of, 'If that's what you think, big deal. You're a twat anyway.'

 

[bimble]

no ideology is ever beyond criticism...
You're a twat anyway.'

 

[Patteran]

Brief response from Badiou to the Paris attacks. I don't speak French, but I can get the gist of it - move beyond horror, barbarism, fascination, don't let mass murder write policy, avoid those relishing the opportunity to cheer for total war, offer the youth choices beyond US power or religious fascism, beyond global capitalism or fascist bandits - has anyone come across a more elegant translation than google?

Pour aider à ce que les meurtres de masse du vendredi 13 novembre, à Paris et à St Denis, soient pensés au-delà des indispensables affects : horreur, barbarie, stupéfaction.
Pour qu’aucune propagande ne puisse s’y opposer fictivement pour s’en servir réellement.
Pour évaluer l’imposture et le péril de ceux qui visiblement se réjouissent, en France ou ailleurs, qu’on puisse enfin crier : « La guerre ! C’est la guerre ! Tous en guerre ».
Pour que d’abjects meurtres de masse ne puissent se glorifier d’avoir à eux seuls plus d’importance et de valeur médiatique et étatique que toutes les recherches rationnelles d’une politique neuve, toutes les expériences de la pensée et de la pratique en direction des vérités à venir.
Pour que les peuples du monde, et singulièrement leur jeunesse, ne soient pas acculés au choix accablant entre un fascisme racialo-religieux et le vide agressif de la domination occidentale, du capitalisme mondialisé et des Etats qui en sont les serviteurs.
Pour en somme que soit surmontée la fausse et meurtrière contradiction apparente du monde qui est le nôtre : entre la modernité monétaire et marchande d’une part et les différentes variantes du gangstérisme traditionaliste de l’autre.
Pour que soit sortie de l’ombre et changée en force la vraie contradiction, qui oppose deux termes dont l’identification est l’entrée obligée pour toute pensée qui s’applique à changer le monde :
1 : le couple guerrier des Etats dominants et des Bandits fascisants, qui ont un intérêt commun à diffuser dans le monde entier une subjectivité de guerre.
2 : les porteurs, par leur alliance à construire, du communisme qui vient : prolétariat international et nomade, intellectuels libres, jeunesse à la recherche d’une vie qui soit grande et vraie.

 

[existentialist]

Are we? Maybe it should be made compulsory to write a manifesto on your profile page.

I think the point Pickman's model is making is that we all come to everything with various preconceived notions - it's impossible not to. We can, to some extent, bracket those by being more aware of them and challenging our own thinking, but there will always be embedded preconceptions and judgements which are so much part of us that we don't notice they're even there.

 

[laptop]

has anyone come across a more elegant translation than google?

It's really dense. It's be a couple of hours' work to do it justice. But you get the gist...

 

[bimble]

I think the point Pickman's model is making is that we all come to everything with various preconceived notions - it's impossible not to. We can, to some extent, bracket those by being more aware of them and challenging our own thinking, but there will always be embedded preconceptions and judgements which are so much part of us that we don't notice they're even there.

Of course we all come at the world with those taught notions. May the road rise up to meet those who try to look beyond them is all.
I hope pickman is wrong about the 'we all have an agenda' thing, even though he's very clever about history.
I mean, it's conceivable that some people have stumbled upon this place with no particular axe to grind but in the hopes of edification through dialectics and new information and stuff like that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I suppose it could have remained with one uncontroversial comment if it hadn't be for the readiness of some to sniff out so-called Islamophobia. And that uncontroversial comment simply stated that ISIS and other Jihadists, being Wahabbi inspired, base themselves on a plausible and widely accepted interpretation of Islam (though they may or may not do that loosely, I'll leave that one to the amateur experts on Islam and the world in general.) And that those who try to deny this are, in my opinion, incorrect.

Wahhabism isn't a "widely accepted interpretation of Islam".In the only state where it is hegemonic, it has to be enforced by a religious police. Everywhere else in the Umma, it's a minority current - often even more minority than Ishmaili Islam.

 

[ViolentPanda]

... or been left at the bottom of the tin to go stale.

Which should be the fate of all Bourbon biscuits.

 

[Pickman's model]

Which should be the fate of all Bourbon biscuits.

by no means, they should be chopped in half

 

[andysays]

Alexie Sayle on revolutionary biscuits (and some other stuff)

 

[coley]

Of course we all come at the world with those taught notions. May the road rise up to meet those who try to look beyond them is all.
I hope pickman is wrong about the 'we all have an agenda' thing, even though he's very clever about history.
I mean, it's conceivable that some people have stumbled upon this place with no particular axe to grind but in the hopes of edification through dialectics and new information and stuff like that.

Pickmans is the resident contrarian librarian, you get used to him

 

[Citizen66]

I thought we weren't supposed to drag people's occupations into it?

 

[bluescreen]

I'm being dead cynical here but can't help wondering how convenient this state of emergency is, in Paris and Brussels, allowing things like warrantless searches, for the polis to settle some long-standing scores.

 

[coley]

I'm being dead cynical here but can't help wondering how convenient this state of emergency is, in Paris and Brussels, allowing things like warrantless searches, for the polis to settle some long-standing scores.

It's a difficult one, but there should be a procedure in place for the OB to be held to account,if after the actions they take,prove be without evidence.

But whatever way you look at it the terrorists are winning, Brussels locked down, people cancelling holidays, the 'authorities' are in a no win situation, disregard the threat and there is another Paris and they are buggered, respond to the threat and business and everyday life is thrown into chaos and nowt happens they end up buggered, not a good time to be a senior politician or decision maker in the West.
Putin must be creaming his kecks

 

[weltweit]

.. Putin must be creaming his kecks

Why do you say that?

 

[bluescreen]

It's a difficult one, but there should be a procedure in place for the OB to be held to account,if after the actions they take,prove be without evidence.

But whatever way you look at it the terrorists are winning, Brussels locked down, people cancelling holidays, the 'authorities' are in a no win situation, disregard the threat and there is another Paris and they are buggered, respond to the threat and business and everyday life is thrown into chaos and nowt happens they end up buggered, not a good time to be a senior politician or decision maker in the West.
Putin must be creaming his kecks

I was agreeing with you till the last sentence. Not sure Putin is too happy about the current événements.

 

[coley]

I was agreeing with you till the last sentence. Not sure Putin is too happy about the current événements.

Fair comment, but those in the West demanding Assads removal,seem to be reconsidering?

 

[bluescreen]

Fair comment, but those in the West demanding Assads removal,seem to be reconsidering?

For now.

 

[coley]

For now.

Aye, who knows what happens next, we seem to be living in "interesting times"