Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[coley]

Why do you say that?

Without wanting to offend, do you have the certificate for the 100 mtrs swimming?

 

[weltweit]

Without wanting to offend, do you have the certificate for the 100 mtrs swimming?

Depends how you mean it oh obtuse one? You said "Putin must be creaming his kecks" which seems an ambiguous statement to me, so I asked you what you meant?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Yeah I'm quite surprised how easily they're having the desired affect. Carry out one coordinated attack that kills the same amount of people as are killed in an hour or so in Syria and what happens? A major western country declares a state of emergency for three months, the city where the European parliament sits is on lock down, public transport stopped, crowds don't gather, a whole load of national grief on the streets and in the media, a load of national debate about what it means for this generation and how it's the defining war, right wing press ratcheting up the islamaphobia, racist twats more vocal in their racism, right wing parties surging, countries vowing to attack etc etc...

In other words exactly what they want but with added bonuses on top! No wonder more is planned, in fact I reckon another attack will happen somewhere around Christmas. Isis must be thinking ' Wow, I never knew it was so easy to get this reaction. Why didn't we do more sooner?' What a fucking mess!

 

[coley]

Depends how you mean it oh obtuse one? You said "Putin must be creaming his kecks" which seems an ambiguous statement to me, so I asked you what you meant?

A question that would be best answered by those with more qualifications than a 100 mtrs swimming cert
Personally, I never even got the bliddy 50 mtrs one

 

[coley]

Yeah I'm quite surprised how easily they're having the desired affect. Carry out one coordinated attack that kills the same amount of people as are killed in an hour or so in Syria and what happens? A major western country declares a state of emergency for three months, the city where the European parliament sits is on lock down, public transport stopped, crowds don't gather, a whole load of national grief on the streets and in the media, a load of national debate about what it means for this generation and how it's the defining war, right wing press ratcheting up the islamaphobia, racist twats more vocal in their racism, right wing parties surging, countries vowing to attack etc etc...

In other words exactly what they want but with added bonuses on top! No wonder more is planned, in fact I reckon another attack will happen somewhere around Christmas. Isis must be thinking ' Wow, I never knew it was so easy to get this reaction. Why didn't we do more sooner?' What a fucking mess!

Not just ISIS but many a lone Wolf ( sad disaffected bastards) wanting a bit of recognition for their actions before disappearing into obscurity.
I think it's fairly obvious we are in for a load of grief in the near future, we either take it on the chin and weather the storm,or we panic and take the lead of the shytehawks led by the likes of the DM.
Personally, I think the majority of us will settle down and get on with it.
I like to think the Dianagate episode was an aberration rather than a new 'norm'

 

[bimble]

You said "Putin must be creaming his kecks" which seems an ambiguous statement to me, so I asked you what you meant?

I picked up a copy of a thing called 'Russia Behind The Headlines' on.. Tuesday. Think it's a sort of mouthpiece for the Russian official line packaged for international consumption (like it's dressed up in a black polo neck to look urbane & sophisticated but has nothing to say that deviates at all from the official line from Moscow).
Anyway, from this it definitely does look like Putin is having a good time.
Cover to cover its basically about how the Paris attacks have made the West wake up and realise how much we need him, how important he is to any way forward against ISIS. Apart from one small article announcing that Russia is now about to complete its sale of £530 million worth of surface to air missiles to Iran that is.
It's got this cartoon (not a great rendering of Dave) to show how the only way we will win against IS is by working together with Putin, sharing information and strategy etc.


Also just a nice little passive aggressive quote from the front page article entitled United We stand divided we fall:
"Co-operation is often spurred by the perception of a common enemy - as was seen when the West allied with Islamists against Russia in Afghanistan in the Eighties, at a time when communism rather than Islamism was seen as the primary threat".

 

[Pickman's model]

I picked up a copy of a thing called 'Russia Behind The Headlines' on.. Tuesday. Think it's a sort of mouthpiece for the Russian official line packaged for international consumption (like it's dressed up in a black polo neck to look urbane & sophisticated but has nothing to say that deviates at all from the official line from Moscow).
Anyway, from this it definitely does look like Putin is having a good time.
Cover to cover its basically about how the Paris attacks have made the West wake up and realise how much we need him, how important he is to any way forward against ISIS. Apart from one small article announcing that Russia is now about to complete its sale of £530 million worth of surface to air missiles to Iran that is.
It's got this cartoon (not a great rendering of Dave) to show how the only way we will win against IS is by working together with Putin, sharing information and strategy etc.

View attachment 79897

Also just a nice little passive aggressive quote from the front page article entitled United We stand divided we fall:
"Co-operation is often spurred by the perception of a common enemy - as was seen when the West allied with Islamists against Russia in Afghanistan in the Eighties, at a time when communism rather than Islamism was seen as the primary threat".

yeh but they're not communicating. can you see what's preventing putin and dc communicating'

 

[bimble]

yeh but they're not communicating. can you see what's preventing putin and dc communicating'

When I look at that picture I see a bloke with only 3 fingers being strangled by the communication, as the article suggests..

 

[Pickman's model]

When I look at that picture I see a bloke with only 3 fingers being strangled by the communication, as the article suggests..

the handsets are the wrong way up

 

[bimble]

the handsets are the wrong way up

 

[Pickman's model]

When I look at that picture I see a bloke with only 3 fingers being strangled by the communication, as the article suggests..

how can you be strangled when neck unconstricted?

 

[bimble]

how can you be strangled when neck unconstricted?

You should get in touch with the editorial team.
We are interested in hearing from our readers, be it comments, criticism, suggestions or a letter of support. Tell us what you think at info@rbth.com.
If you want to visit our headquarters in Moscow, please note that we have to issue a pass for you to enter the building, so consider calling us in advance and remember to take some photo ID with you.

 

[Pickman's model]

You should get in touch with the editorial team.
We are interested in hearing from our readers, be it comments, criticism, suggestions or a letter of support. Tell us what you think at info@rbth.com.
If you want to visit our headquarters in Moscow, please note that we have to issue a pass for you to enter the building, so consider calling us in advance and remember to take some photo ID with you.

 

[bimble]

What ? You've been commenting as if I'm responsible for the content of the russian newspaper, which is a bit silly. Was just referring to it here because seemed relevant to the question of whether or not Putin has had a good week.

 

[bimble]

New article by Malik today.
Why do Islamist groups in particular seem so much more sadistic, even evil? | Kenan Malik

 

[andysays]

the handsets are the wrong way up

Not only that, they're also connected directly by a wire rather than through the telephone exchange and wider network, so even if they held them the right way up they wouldn't be able to communicate effectively.

It's a shocking display of ignorance by the Russian cartoonist of how global telecommunication systems actually work...

 

[Pickman's model]

What ? You've been commenting as if I'm responsible for the content of the russian newspaper, which is a bit silly. Was just referring to it here because seemed relevant to the question of whether or not Putin has had a good week.

my comments were aimed at your inability to read the content of the cartoon

 

[Pickman's model]

Not only that, they're also connected directly by a wire rather than through the telephone exchange and wider network, so even if they held them the right way up they wouldn't be able to communicate effectively.

It's a shocking display of ignorance by the Russian cartoonist of how global telecommunication systems actually work...

while i think we may forgive the omissions you find so galling, drawing the handsets upside down demonstrates the appearance of communication neyween vp and dc has no substance.

 

[Pickman's model]

New article by Malik today.
Why do Islamist groups in particular seem so much more sadistic, even evil? | Kenan Malik

but what do you think of it?

 

[andysays]

while i think we may forgive the omissions you find so galling, drawing the handsets upside down demonstrates the appearance of communication neyween vp and dc has no substance.

I realise that, I was just making a bid for the currently vacant title of Urban Pedant Champion (early Sunday morning category).

Anyway, I haven't been following all the twists and turns of the story, but isn't it the case that Cameron isn't particularly interested in co-operating with Putin (and possibly vice versa) over this?

 

[Pickman's model]

I realise that, I was just making a bid for the currently vacant title of Urban Pedant Champion (early Sunday morning category).

Anyway, I haven't been following all the twists and turns of the story, but isn't it the case that Cameron isn't particularly interested in co-operating with Putin (and possibly vice versa) over this?

ah: the title's yours.

 

[bimble]

but what do you think of it?

Me personally I've found Malik's writing singularly helpful in clarifying what is going on (including today's one and the other two he's produced since Friday).
Today's article resolves with typical clarity and courage the issue that was being mangled on here yesterday evening by people arguing with Jimmy Turr by restating from a slightly different angle the central idea that key to all this is identity politics. As in:
"Over the past few decades these anti-imperialist traditions have unravelled. The new movements that have emerged in their place are often rooted in religious or ethnic identity, and are sectarian or separatist in form. This shift is linked to the wider decline of progressive social movements, the loss of faith in universalist values, and the replacement of ideological politics with the politics of identity. Moral norms have increasingly become tribal rather than universal. Political struggle for a better world has given way to inchoate identity-driven rage."

 

[Knotted]

New article by Malik today.
Why do Islamist groups in particular seem so much more sadistic, even evil? | Kenan Malik

Very poor analysis of jihadi ideology. Saying jihadis are anti-west is a bit like saying Nazism was anti-French.

 

[Spymaster]

Saying jihadis are anti-west is a bit like saying Nazism was anti-French.

That's not true though, is it.

 

[andysays]

Very poor analysis of jihadi ideology. Saying jihadis are anti-west is a bit like saying Nazism was anti-French.

You may or may not agree with his analysis, but he isn't saying that jihadis are merely anti-west, nor is the "West" they are against merely a collection of countries and their inhabitants, it's also a collection of values (secularism, universalism, emancipation for all humanity, etc).

(And to forestall any objections to the last bit, he isn't saying that those values are exclusively or universally "western", merely that that's a short-hand for how jihadis see them.)

 

[LDC]

Not listened to it yet, but Novara discussed the Paris attacks this week
Paris Attacks: The Aftermath and the History

 

[Knotted]

You may or may not agree with his analysis, but he isn't saying that jihadis are merely anti-west, nor is the "West" they are against merely a collection of countries and their inhabitants, it's also a collection of values (secularism, universalism, emancipation for all humanity, etc).

(And to forestall any objections to the last bit, he isn't saying that those values are exclusively or universally "western", merely that that's a short-hand for how jihadis see them.)

I don't disagree with his analysis. It's just a useless way to look at it. Like saying Hilter was anti-French and anti-Versaille. True, but you're looking at one small corner of their thought.

 

[Knotted]

Of all the people ISIS are fighting and of all their targets how many are "western"? Is Ba'athism western? Does it have western values? Yes, in a sense (is this the sense Malik means?). In a sense ISIS is western itself, it has more western influence (via Qutb) than the typical the Saudi Wahhabi or Salafi. Why pander to this east versus west nonsense?

 

[frogwoman]

They (IS rather than Al qaeda) hate 'rafidahs' more than they hate the West tbh.

 

[Pickman's model]

They (IS rather than Al qaeda) hate 'rafidahs' more than they hate the West tbh.