Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
just like those xians and their 'bible'
Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions
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coley
Well-Known Member
I suspect the "main players" in this current conflict have as much religious conviction as the 'Catholics and prods' of the 'troubles' IE, fuck all. It's now all about money, power and territorial gains.
Perhaps, but so what?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not really - if you (as they do) exclude nearly every other manifestation of a faith then you are either the pure representation of that faith (which is impossible, given the time that has elapsed between the actual pure representatives of that faith and now), or something else entirely. Given their actions, it is probably the latter.
We have no way of knowing. I suspect there's a broad mix of motivations including devoutly religious ones.
What's different about their actions than the original Wahabbi sect?
coley
Well-Known Member
Aye, plenty of space, just as long as they don't expect jobs!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
You do know that the Wahabbi are a relatively recent phenomenon?
coley
Well-Known Member
True, but but at the 'management level' I doubt you will find many true believers.
Yes, but a recognised brand of Islam and the inspiration for the current madness. They're in charge of Mecca for fuck's sake.
As I said, how could we possibly know?
The liberal claim that all this is nothing to do with Islam is patently absurd.
JimW
支那暗杀团
But only as absurd as the idea that it is mostly or exclusively about Islam as opposed to the politics and history of the region.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
You are missing the point. As an outsider, or one of most Muslims on the planet, you recognize that there are different forms of Islam. They (the Salafis) do not recognize any other forms.
I know. But there are plenty who do acknowledge both factors, and plenty who go along with the, for certain Muslims, self-serving idea that none of this is anything to do with Islam.
coley
Well-Known Member
Now,I'm not well known as a liberal on here,but dumping this Shyte on the shoulders of a largely peaceful section of society isn't the way forward, the nut jobs need to be isolated and destroyed, and to do this all parts of society need to be involved, both religious and secular.
I don't see the missed point. I acknowledged that they are an influential, not to mention financially powerful, brand among several.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The point you are missing is that if you consider that they represent, or are part of, the rest of Islam then they disagree with you. They are of the opinion that they are (edit) the Muslims, and no-one else is; so using them as a stick to beat the rest of the Muslim world with is absurd.
Pointing out an obvious fact isn't dumping shite on anybody. What could be more damaging than trying to claim something that probably most people can see is actually false?
The nutjobs evidently can't be isolated, let alone destroyed. This will still be with us when your grandkids (if you have any) are old.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh let's fart on about the exceptionalism of islam
Just because they are intolerant of other Muslims, it doesn't mean they're not a part of Islam. As I said, they control Mecca, and the rest of the Muslim world seems rather passive about that.
Nobody has suggested using this fact as a stick to beat anybody.
Nobody mentioned the exceptionalism of anything.
coley
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, what is this "obvious fact"? You are pointing out?
That what is going on is far from being separate from Islam. They are motivated by an interpretation of Islam.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if i'm nobody shouldn't you join the 40 losers and put me on ignore?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
No, but given that definition it doesn't mean that they aren't a part of the human race, or the other Abrahamic religions, or even the wider AK-47 owners club either. It is absurd to put the rest of those groups in the same pot as these people because they themselves say that they are not the same.
Really. So you are postulating this argument that they are just another brand of Islam for what reason, then?
coley
Well-Known Member
But an "interpretation" that most Muslims reject? Or have the denunciations of the violence from most mainstream Islamic organisations been mainly a load of tosh?
No, but given that definition it doesn't mean that they aren't a part of the human race, or the other Abrahamic religions, or even the wider AK-47 owners club either. It is absurd to put the rest of those groups in the same pot as these people because they themselves say that they are not the same.
Really. So you are postulating this argument that they are just another brand of Islam for what reason, then?
Not part of the human race? What are you on about? Has anybody put other Muslims in the same pot? I haven't. All I've said is that ISIS and co are still Muslims. I never claimed all Muslims openly or secretly agree with them.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
You are saying that they are a "recognized brand of Islam". They disagree with you, as do most other Muslims. Why are you coming out with this argument?
What does it matter, in acknowledging that ISIS, being Wahabbis, are Islamic, that most Muslims disagree with them?
As far as I can see, at least some Muslim spokesman (and they usually are men) say different things for different audiences. But, having said that, I believe that even most Islamists disagree with the likes of ISIS.
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