Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[Magnus McGinty]

But religion is political isn't it? I mean what does a non-political Islam (or Christianity if you prefer) look like?

But it isn't politically uniform is it?

 

[emanymton]

But religion is political isn't it? I mean what does a non-political Islam (or Christianity if you prefer) look like?

True, but there has to be some distinction as well doesn't there? Otherwise everyone with the same religion would have similar politics and that's not the case. Because you know someones religion it doesn't necessarily mean you can infer anything about their politics. The two may develop alongside and shape each other. But there has to be a degree of separation.

 

[danny la rouge]

No I totally agree that the actual explanations for why people get radicalized are complex and nuanced, I read a lot on this subject and in many ways i even agree with Kaman Malik. However I don't accept that religion itself has anything to do with it, above being a conveniently infallible pretext - and of course all religions feature the kind of fanatics who do this.

Just as communism and marxism can't in themselves be blamed for the actions of brutal-minded communists in certain places at times. People like to feel they're doing the right thing, and a big book endorsed by scholars is the perfect backup.

Sure, but everything has context. To say "religion has nothing to do with it" is a way of removing a cultural context from what is a Social as well as an individual phenomenon.

The point is rather than dismiss a role for religion, to ask what role it plays.

 

[mojo pixy]

In that case we need to ask what role it plays for the billions who never strap on a bomb.

 

[danny la rouge]

In that case we need to ask what role it plays for the billions who never strap on a bomb.

And I think that's absolutely right. Because it's not a direct "this always causes that" issue. I know some people (not you) are reading me as saying that, but that's because they don't actually bother to look at what I am saying.

 

[mikey mikey]

 

[danny la rouge]

And I think that's absolutely right. Because it's not a direct "this always causes that" issue. I know some people (not you) are reading me as saying that, but that's because they don't actually bother to look at what I am saying.

Sorry, I ended that abruptly.

I'm not really able to give this my full attention because my damn family keep expecting me to, you know, acknowledge their existence. (What do they want from me?)

 

[maomao]

Sorry, I ended that abruptly.

I'm not really able to give this my full attention because my damn family keep expecting me to, you know, acknowledge their existence. (What do they want from me?)

At least yours are grown up. I've got a toddler who alway needs attention right when I'm very very angry with a complete stranger.

 

[Doubledown]

The unfairness of it is what burns
one people's religions and culture
let not one hair be put out of place
and every woman kept in theirs
Politeness has become a curse
punishable to criticise an alien God
that is on the rise
Nothing about your culture be changed
let your theocracy prevail
But my heritage has just much right
not in the Koran but in the heritage of Britain
its history, its and great people and way of life
But to say so is trodden on
I won't call them do-gooders
because they do not do good
or love Islam they just hate the critic's of Islam more.
By doctrine driven as a communist directive
all facts forced a fit the party line.
Defeat the Tories through open borders
up the numbers, pander to get their vote
I do not dwell on the past, what is done is done
All have a right to exist
But there is painful grieving to be done
for the Britain which is no more.

 

[bimble]

Did you write that all by yourself Doubledown?

 

[B.I.G]

The unfairness of it is what burns
one people's religions and culture
let not one hair be put out of place
and every woman kept in theirs
Politeness has become a curse
punishable to criticise an alien God
that is on the rise
Nothing about your culture be changed
let your theocracy prevail
But my heritage has just much right
not in the Koran but in the heritage of Britain
its history, its and great people and way of life
But to say so is trodden on
I won't call them do-gooders
because they do not do good
or love Islam they just hate the critic's of Islam more.
By doctrine driven as a communist directive
all facts forced a fit the party line.
Defeat the Tories through open borders
up the numbers, pander to get their vote
I do not dwell on the past, what is done is done
All have a right to exist
But there is painful grieving to be done
for the Britain which is no more.

Best board banter eva.

 

[butchersapron]

It's on the same level as your contributions.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

regarding the post-fact piffle upthread: I might have known communism would be to blame for this at some level.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But the Hadiths are full of commentary, so it's OK to comment and interpret as long as you have a scholastic tradition and the power of a caliph behind you. It's just that you and I aren't allowed to do it.

And neither is your common or garden Islamist radical.

 

[B.I.G]

It's on the same level as your contributions.

Sorry I can't be arsed waffling on about politial theory. Is there a thread / section for that nonsense?

 

[NoXion]

The unfairness of it is what burns
one people's religions and culture
let not one hair be put out of place
and every woman kept in theirs
Politeness has become a curse
punishable to criticise an alien God
that is on the rise
Nothing about your culture be changed
let your theocracy prevail
But my heritage has just much right
not in the Koran but in the heritage of Britain
its history, its and great people and way of life
But to say so is trodden on
I won't call them do-gooders
because they do not do good
or love Islam they just hate the critic's of Islam more.
By doctrine driven as a communist directive
all facts forced a fit the party line.
Defeat the Tories through open borders
up the numbers, pander to get their vote
I do not dwell on the past, what is done is done
All have a right to exist
But there is painful grieving to be done
for the Britain which is no more.

The God of Mohammed is the God of Abraham. So not alien to these fair isles in fact.

 

[butchersapron]

Didn't know you were a British Israelite nixon.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

The God of Mohammed is the God of Abraham. So not alien to these fair isles in fact.

Without meaning to be impolite that particular claim is especially one sided, and it ought to be considered how such a claim came to be made, and why. Not perhaps for this thread.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Without meaning to be impolite that particular claim is especially one sided, and it ought to be considered how such a claim came to be made, and why. Not perhaps for this thread.

It's not one sided, it's down-the-line theology 101 but you're right it may not be the right thread for it.

 

[treelover]

Guardian is reporting an explosion, screams, etc in Manchester, Moss Side, possibly controlled one by police, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Guardian is reporting an explosion, screams, etc in Manchester, Moss Side, possibly controlled one by police, etc.

Stop spreading rumours

E2A this is another article you haven't in fact read, isn't it. You're always spouting shit from the first paragraph and never reading to the end of the piece. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Armed police carry out fresh raid in Manchester amid report of explosion

 

[Pickman's model]

The God of Mohammed is the God of Abraham. So not alien to these fair isles in fact.

Er I think you'll find that the jewish, christian or muslim god is in fact alien to these fair isles as those religions emanate from palestine and arabia respectively

 

[JimW]

Alien to these fair isles but no stranger to an Aran sweater.

 

[bimble]

The lost Britain of yore for which Doubledown pines doesn't have room for any of that imported nonsense, Jesus being a bloody foreigner too of course. Just oak trees and heroic mists, maybe some bunting.

 

[danny la rouge]

Er I think you'll find that the jewish, christian or muslim god is in fact alien to these fair isles as those religions emanate from palestine and arabia respectively

But did these feet, in ancient times, buy a book on ley lines from a head shop just along from the King William Inn?

 

[mojo pixy]

And neither is your common or garden Islamist radical.

Of course not but they don't need to. Scholastic justifications for their strain of Islam already exist. I'd link to one but I really don't want to, nobody needs to read that crap (and those kinds of commentaries aren't hard to Google for)

 

[J Ed]

While other publications, such as the FT, ask searching questions about British foreign policy and the seeming deployment of Libyan exiles in the 2011 intervention we have bag carrying for the British security services from the Guardian...

It’s a delusion to think that the terror attacks are just about foreign policy | Jonathan Freedland

We know that Salman Abedi was a child of Libyan Islamists, vehemently opposed to Muammar Gaddafi. Imagine his rage if the west had heard the dictator’s threats to carry out a massacre in Bengazi in 2011 and done nothing. It would be similar to the jihadi venom that’s directed at the west for failing to stop Bashar al-Assad from slaughtering Muslims in Syria – a sentiment that helped win recruits to Islamic State

 

[butchersapron]

But did these feet, in ancient times, buy a book on ley lines from a head shop just along from the King William Inn?

I have just left the king William and heard a woman shout *look at at the clairvoyance books*.

The most money obsessed town I've ever been to.

 

[J Ed]

While other publications, such as the FT, ask searching questions about British foreign policy and the seeming deployment of Libyan exiles in the 2011 intervention we have bag carrying for the British security services from the Guardian...

It’s a delusion to think that the terror attacks are just about foreign policy | Jonathan Freedland

I don't suppose that we will ever know if the security services played a role in ferrying, or helping to facilitate the passage of, Abedi personally to Libya or whether that simply applies to other more prominent members of his community but a lot more people need to start asking the question because it is a very pertinent one.