Mad Paul Mason

[Smokeandsteam]

Mason is right though as much as it might be irritating to Lexit nuts

He's not though is he.

Mass deindustrialisation has occurred here, and in much of Europe, under membership of the EU. These were decisions made by capital to move money and work to where they could maximise profits.

If we remain in the EU this will be attractive to the profit model of some forms of capital until it isn't at which point they will go. It won't be to others however. .

The two fundamental points are that firstly, ordinary people have not been and are not responsible for the decisions made by capital and its hugely misleading to pretend they are. The second is that Mason does/should know this and the fact he posted this is therefore revolting.

'Lexit nuts' - classy.

 

[belboid]

Are you Paul Mason? Or just in need of the daily lie down?

No, I'm just someone who can read without inserting several thousand of my own assumptions into what i'm reading. As killerb pouts out, there is no 'demonisation' there, its a pretty straight forward, and perfectly valid, point, even if it is a bit crassly phrased. 'Did you vote for this' is a common thing to ask after any vote. It doesn't blame the voter (although you certainly seem to do that, ironically) so all your faux outrage is misplaced. Your support for no deal is blinding you to the fact that that choice is gonna have some pretty shit consequences for working-class people.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Your support for no deal is blinding you to the fact that that choice is gonna have some pretty shit consequences for working-class people.

Obviously true but then remain winning and more of the same would have had shit consequences for working class people. As evidenced by post industrial areas over last few decades. Every direction has shit consequences for working class people because it isn't working class people in control. The emphasis placed on those people as culpable for the consequences that will detrimentally effect them is, however you cut it, snide and indicative of really shit politics

 

[Smokeandsteam]

No, I'm just someone who can read without inserting several thousand of my own assumptions into what i'm reading. As killerb pouts out, there is no 'demonisation' there, its a pretty straight forward, and perfectly valid, point, even if it is a bit crassly phrased. 'Did you vote for this' is a common thing to ask after any vote. It doesn't blame the voter (although you certainly seem to do that, ironically) so all your faux outrage is misplaced. Your support for no deal is blinding you to the fact that that choice is gonna have some pretty shit consequences for working-class people.

Straightforward, perfectly valid and crass....okay....

The consequences of capital for the people of Sunderland, have been and are, already pretty shit if you hadn't noticed. Only 4 weeks ago you were seeking to dismiss academic research conducted in the North East on why people voted leave.

As for assumptions, you've made a pretty big one. Par for the course with you.

 

[belboid]

Obviously true but then remain winning and more of the same would have had shit consequences for working class people. As evidenced by post industrial areas over last few decades. Every direction has shit consequences for working class people because it isn't working class people in control. The emphasis placed on those people as culpable for the consequences that will detrimentally effect them is, however you cut it, snide and indicative of really shit politics

Except the only person placing that emphasis is smokeandsteam, not Paul Mason.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Except the only person placing that emphasis is smokeandsteam, not Paul Mason.

Fuck off Belboid. I thought you were better than this.

You know full well what Mason was doing was dog whistling to his remainiac mates.

 

[belboid]

Straightforward, perfectly valid and crass....okay....

The consequences of capital for the people of Sunderland, have been and are, already pretty shit if you hadn't noticed. Only 4 weeks ago you were seeking to dismiss academic research conducted in the North East on why people voted leave.

As for assumptions, you've made a pretty big one. Par for the course with you.

You dont really want to go back to that do you? The small survey of a bunch of mates, all white, all 45+ and three-quarter male. For the reasons I stated at length there (and which you ignored) that survey is reasonably valid, but only of a rather partial cross-section of the class.

And, yes,of course 'the consequences of capital' are bad for Sunderland, that's capital, and will be whether we leave the EU or not. Sometimes it can be shitter than other times though. And we should try and avoid those consequences.

 

[belboid]

Fuck off Belboid. I thought you were better than this.

You know full well what Mason was doing was dog whistling to his remainiac mates.

Fuck off right back. I know you're not any better than this. You're just a shit Eddie Dempsey.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

You dont really want to go back to that do you? The small survey of a bunch of mates, all white, all 45+ and three-quarter male. For the reasons I stated at length there (and which you ignored) that survey is reasonably valid, but only of a rather partial cross-section of the class.

And, yes,of course 'the consequences of capital' are bad for Sunderland, that's capital, and will be whether we leave the EU or not. Sometimes it can be shitter than other times though. And we should try and avoid those consequences.

We will have to keep going back to it because you continue to mischaracterize it. As I pointed out, as the authors pointed out the research builds on and is situated within a much larger and ongoing body of work.

Your second point is just bollocks. Defence of the status quo bollocks in fact.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Fuck off right back. I know you're not any better than this. You're just a shit Eddie Dempsey.

Grow the fuck up.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Except the only person placing that emphasis is smokeandsteam, not Paul Mason.

The emphasis is explicit in his tweet though. The electorate not the politicians. That's what his tweet says.

 

[belboid]

We will have to keep going back to it because you continue to mischaracterize it. As I pointed out, as the authors pointed out the research builds on and is situated within a much larger and ongoing body of work.


Your second point is just bollocks. Defence of the status quo bollocks in fact.

Lol. It’s the only bit you’ve quoted, so own it.

and opposing no deal isn’t defending the status quo any more than your support for it is supporting the Tory right.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Except the only person placing that emphasis is smokeandsteam, not Paul Mason.

Mason definitely is being a bit of a bellend. No point claiming he isn't.

 

[NoXion]

So who's fault was it when industries abandoned communities before Brexit? How do we know that they're not just using another PR-friendly excuse this time round?

 

[belboid]

So who's fault was it when industries abandoned communities before Brexit? How do we know that they're not just using another PR-friendly excuse this time round?

If a no deal brexit doesn't affect how capital behaves, why are we arsed about it?

 

[SpackleFrog]

If a no deal brexit doesn't affect how capital behaves, why are we arsed about it?

Come on, you brought up no deal brexit, no one else was talking about it. You raised the criticism of Smokeandsteam's comments, now you have to respond to what people are saying.

 

[kenny g]

Can't you both carry on telling each other to fuck off? I found it quite compelling. Like a young one's episode dragged into Brexit land.

 

[belboid]

Come on, you brought up no deal brexit, no one else was talking about it. You raised the criticism of Smokeandsteam's comments, now you have to respond to what people are saying.

eh? It is at the heart of all these conversations, we can't pretend that it isn't. It is absolutely explicitly behind the Nissan statement that kicked off this bit of discussion. So, no, I didn't bring it up, it is always there.

 

[belboid]

Can't you both carry on telling each other to fuck off? I found it quite compelling. Like a young one's episode dragged into Brexit land.

Darling fascist bully boy. Give me some more brexit you bastard. May the seeds of your capital be fruitful in the belly of your offshore tax haven.

 

[SpackleFrog]

eh? It is at the heart of all these conversations, we can't pretend that it isn't. It is absolutely explicitly behind the Nissan statement that kicked off this bit of discussion. So, no, I didn't bring it up, it is always there.

Er. What?

It's not really is it? Because it isn't a realistic possibility. There is not going to be a 'no deal' Brexit.

In any case, the discussion isn't about that. It is about how Mason responded to Nissan announcing job cuts, aiming his comments directly at leave voters. We are talking about Mason, not about Nissan. You are projecting what you want the discussion to be about, but that isn't what we are talking about.

 

[chilango]

A more charitable interpretation is that Mason is using this to try and drive a wedge between leave voters and the leave government.

Hard to do that in a one sentence tweet mind.

 

[Proper Tidy]

A more charitable interpretation is that Mason is using this to try and drive a wedge between leave voters and the leave government.

Hard to do that in a one sentence tweet mind.

Yeah maybe. Although it would be easy to say 'leave voters voted for agency, not for this' or something

 

[belboid]

Er. What?

It's not really is it? Because it isn't a realistic possibility. There is not going to be a 'no deal' Brexit.

Seriously? There is no prospect of no deal? Have you been in hiding for the last six months?

In any case, the discussion isn't about that. It is about how Mason responded to Nissan announcing job cuts, aiming his comments directly at leave voters. We are talking about Mason, not about Nissan. You are projecting what you want the discussion to be about, but that isn't what we are talking about.

No, I was responding to a point about what and why Nissan were dong something, as well as Mason's comment.

I certainly wouldn't have tweeted in the same way - as it was bound to be interpreted by some in just the way S&S took it. But there's still nothing wrong in principle in saying 'did you vote for this?'

 

[SpackleFrog]

Seriously? There is no prospect of no deal? Have you been in hiding for the last six months?


No, I was responding to a point about what and why Nissan were dong something, as well as Mason's comment.

I certainly wouldn't have tweeted in the same way - as it was bound to be interpreted by some in just the way S&S took it. But there's still nothing wrong in principle in saying 'did you vote for this?'

No, there is no prospect of no deal. That is not what any significant section of capital wants. Keep up.

If you know how that tweet would be understood, are you saying that Mason is too stupid to know how that tweet would be understood or that he just doesn't care/wants it to be interpreted that way?

 

[belboid]

No, there is no prospect of no deal. That is not what any significant section of capital wants. Keep up.

Dude, I am doing. If you seriously think there is no chance of no deal, you are the only person left alive believing that. The possibility of a deal is no more than 20% if you ask me.

If you know how that tweet would be understood, are you saying that Mason is too stupid to know how that tweet would be understood or that he just doesn't care/wants it to be interpreted that way?

He was daft. But no dafter than those who chose to believe he is 'demonising' leave voters. And less daft than those who think there is no prospect of no deal.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I dunno about there being no prospect of no deal, but 20% chance of a deal, do me a favour. Most likely course is extension, election, deal, surely

 

[SpineyNorman]

I dunno about there being no prospect of no deal, but 20% chance of a deal, do me a favour. Most likely course is extension, election, deal, surely

Definitely. But if belboid means less than 20% chance of a deal before the deadline then I'd probably agree.

I haven't really got a clue though

 

[belboid]

I dunno about there being no prospect of no deal, but 20% chance of a deal, do me a favour. Most likely course is extension, election, deal, surely

Johnson undoubtedly feels he can get around the Benn Bill. Fuck knows how, but I wouldn't place too great a hope in it stopping him doing what he wants. Hopefully, it will be delay and election, and labour win it. I suppose the tories could win a big majority that means they can totally ignore the DUP and push some other deal through. Tho I think no deal would still be more likely under them. Maybe it gets as high as 35-40% chance of a deal, in the medium term, but the chances of us leaving on October 31 with one, slim slim slim.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Johnson undoubtedly feels he can get around the Benn Bill. Fuck knows how, but I wouldn't place too great a hope in it stopping him doing what he wants. Hopefully, it will be delay and election, and labour win it. I suppose the tories could win a big majority that means they can totally ignore the DUP and push some other deal through. Tho I think no deal would still be more likely under them. Maybe it gets as high as 35-40% chance of a deal, in the medium term, but the chances of us leaving on October 31 with one, slim slim slim.

Yeah fair enough about end of october, don't think much chance of a deal by then, I don't buy that tories actually looking for way round extension though. It's just play fighting

 

[SpackleFrog]

Dude, I am doing. If you seriously think there is no chance of no deal, you are the only person left alive believing that. The possibility of a deal is no more than 20% if you ask me.

I don't believe I am the only person alive who believes no deal will not happen, but if that is the case then clearly I am an intellectual god surrounded by febrile minds. Your analysis of course, not mine. I think the possibility of a deal (with a customs union in the Irish sea) is much higher than 20% but I'd put the chances of no deal around 0.001%.

.


He was daft.

So... Mason said something really stupid?

Johnson undoubtedly feels he can get around the Benn Bill. Fuck knows how, but I wouldn't place too great a hope in it stopping him doing what he wants.

Yeah, you're just being daft now. Are you parodying Mason?