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London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

ExtraRefined said:
If "tuition fees" were rebranded as a "student tax", perhaps they'd be more popular. We all know how much lefties like taxes after all, although admittedly they prefer it if they're taxes on other people.

Perhaps the tax could be in the form of an income tax on earnings above £21k pa. Oh wait.
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How about the tax is on people earning over 50k p/a whether they went to uni or not.

By the way, you may appreciate this piece from your hero:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...o-of-the-european-parliament-is-a-trotskyist/
 
kabbes said:
That's irrelevant. Again.

Look at the blogs coming out of the day. We're talking about 5-foot teenage girls being pushed from behind towards the police, only to have the police hit them in the face with a truncheon.

Everything else is a distraction from this central question: what should be done about this? Should we ignore it? Please, tell me.
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If the purpose of a crowd is to protest and not invade HOP, how to instigate crowd control ?

There is a terrible history of crushing casualties where rigid barriers have been used.
.
 
gentlegreen said:
If the purpose of a crowd is to protest and not invade HOP, how to instigate crowd control ?

There is a terrible history of crushing casualties where rigid barriers have been used.
.
Click to expand...
So don't use rigid barriers.

In what way is it appropriate for police to truncheon a defenseless and helpless girl who is simply being pushed towards the barrier.

Frankly, I find it simply incredible that you are unwilling to acknowledge this issue. It's like you are tacitly endorsing it.
 
gentlegreen said:
If the purpose of a crowd is to protest and not invade HOP, how to instigate crowd control ?

There is a terrible history of crushing casualties where rigid barriers have been used.
.
Click to expand...

The implicit assumption here is that the crowd needs an external force to control it. It is a highly questionable assumption.
 
TopCat said:
You expressing support, however qualified for these events, is uncharted waters indeed.
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I don't see how I qualified my support.

I'm not creaming myself over the rioting (which is being exaggerated anyway), although I can understand why it's happening. But it's encouraging to see that so many working class kids, after three decades of working class defeat and social atomisation, are still able to recognise their own interests.
 
TopCat said:
Yeah this needs to be done in advance!
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Yeah, but then you either have a very limited amount of ammunition, or a very heavy load to take with you. You also have the problem of bringing it in a container that will stay strong in a rucksack for hours, but disintegrate when it hits a copper.

Balloons and a funnel, placcy bags, couple of sheets and a big sign to let people know where the bog is. Instant ammunition, and as much of it as you could ever need if there are a couple of thousand people being kettled for hours...
 
kabbes said:
So don't use rigid barriers.

In what way is it appropriate for police to truncheon a defenseless and helpless girl who is simply being pushed towards the barrier.

Frankly, I find it simply incredible that you are unwilling to acknowledge this issue. It's like you are tacitly endorsing it.
Click to expand...

By entering a situation like that - by making your way to the front of a crowd, you are implicitly accepting some element of risk.

Speaking as a 250lb 6 foot adult, I won't go anywhere like that - never did at concerts or raves. I once left a night on a moored boat because of a gut feeling that it was dangerous.

They should probably have handed out health and safety warnings in advance.
 
LLETSA said:
I'm not creaming myself over the rioting (which is being exaggerated anyway), although I can understand why it's happening. But it's encouraging to see that so many working class kids, after three decades of working class defeat and social atomisation, are still able to recognise their own interests.
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with you on that
 
gentlegreen said:
By entering a situation like that - by making your way to the front of a crowd, you are implicitly accepting some element of risk.

Speaking as a 250lb 6 foot adult, I won't go anywhere like that - never did at concerts or raves. I once left a night on a moored boat because of a gut feeling that it was dangerous.

They should probably have handed out health and safety warnings in advance.
Click to expand...

There's a logic fail there. If you have a crowd, somebody has to be at the front.

Also, just because someone has shown a bit of bravery, that does not in any way justify them being hurt.

Anyway, this was a demonstration. She and anyone else ought to have the fucking right to be at the front of any demonstration. That you would refuse to stand at the front of a march for fear of being hurt does not give you any right to judge those who would not.
 
gentlegreen said:
By entering a situation like that - by making your way to the front of a crowd, you are implicitly accepting some element of risk.

Speaking as a 250lb 6 foot adult, I won't go anywhere like that - never did at concerts or raves. I once left a night on a moored boat because of a gut feeling that it was dangerous.

They should probably have handed out health and safety warnings in advance.
Click to expand...

You've never been in a kettle. It isn't a concert or a fucking rave. Whether you are at the front, the back or in the middle is very seldom wholly your own choice. You wet liberal.
 
belboid said:
Me too.

Which shows what a magnificent event this was, even bringing together Urbans gangs of in-fighting lefties :)
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Me too.

For me it just goes to show that no matter how moribund the class struggle has got for us over recent years the fundamental nature of this society will show through, and for a whole bunch of younsters recently they'll have learned some massive lessons they won't forget. Let's hope it's the start of a new wave of class struggle.

*raises tea mug to all those involved yesterday*
 
gentlegreen said:
By entering a situation like that - by making your way to the front of a crowd, you are implicitly accepting some element of risk.

Speaking as a 250lb 6 foot adult, I won't go anywhere like that - never did at concerts or raves. I once left a night on a moored boat because of a gut feeling that it was dangerous.

They should probably have handed out health and safety warnings in advance.
Click to expand...
That's it? Nothing to say about the police behaviour at all? Simply that somebody who is exercising a legal right to protest is getting what is coming to them by daring to be there?
 
Louis MacNeice said:
Yep that would be good, although it would still leave high and dry all those who have been let down thus far (and any who slip through the net subsequently).

Louis MacNeice
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Well thats the bit I dont get ...why replace the coalition with the bunch that caused the problem in the first place? .......but this time they dont even have the money to throw around..........

I dont know what the answer is ..and I feel really sad......but it looks like a whole generation is going to get written off , Youth unemployment is already at 42%, and thats with the education fiddle...Its going to get worse too

All this action is going to do is put water cannon and gas back onto our streets ...but we cannot continue as we are !
 
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