London Student protests - Wed 8th Dec+ Thurs 9th

[littlebabyjesus]

It's amazing no one was actually killed.

And if someone had been killed, you'd have been blaming the protesters.

 

[dennisr]

By entering a situation like that - by making your way to the front of a crowd, you are implicitly accepting some element of risk.

I guess this bloke in a wheelchair must have been "implicitly accepting some element of risk":
http://www.rstewart.org/2010/12/10/disabled-journalist-pulled-from-wheelchair-by-riot-police

 

[belboid]

Well burrowed old mole

Marx AND Shakespeare

 

[Proper Tidy]

Well thats the bit I dont get ...why replace the coalition with the bunch that caused the problem in the first place? .......but this time they dont even have the money to throw around..........

I dont know what the answer is ..and I feel really sad......but it looks like a whole generation is going to get written off , Youth unemployment is already at 42%, and thats with the education fiddle...Its going to get worse too

All this action is going to do is put water cannon and gas back onto our streets ...but we cannot continue as we are !

The bunch that caused the problem in the first place are the capitalist class, of which tories, liberals and labour are all representatives.

 

[dennisr]

you cryptic old cunt

The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte. Karl Marx 1852 arf (as our fav anarcho-stalinist would add)

 

[belboid]

as taken from Hamlet, when Princey meets his fathers ghost and swears revenge!

 

[LLETSA]

The bunch that caused the problem in the first place are the capitalist class, of which tories, liberals and labour are all representatives.

His points about youth unemployment are relevant, though. Assuming this goes through and thousands drop out of higher education, where are the jobs coming from? Literally nobody in mainstream politics even mentions it.

 

[Tankus]

The bunch that caused the problem in the first place are the capitalist class, of which tories, liberals and labour are all representatives.

Who were the right on Marxists trots and revolutionary's in their youth ........all it takes is one sniff

 

[Spion]

Anyway, there's been some fantasticly inventive tactics on display from the studes, avoiding the kessel etc. Breaking out of one is a problem that needs to be solved at some point

 

[TopCat]

I don't see how I qualified my support.

I'm not creaming myself over the rioting (which is being exaggerated anyway), although I can understand why it's happening. But it's encouraging to see that so many working class kids, after three decades of working class defeat and social atomisation, are still able to recognise their own interests.

Excellent!

 

[TopCat]

Just because I'm often sceptical about the prospects of success, it doesn't mean I don't support such events.

Quoted for posterity. Excellent!
<buries hatchet>

 

[Proper Tidy]

His points about youth unemployment are relevant, though. Assuming this goes through and thousands drop out of higher education, where are the jobs coming from? Literally nobody in mainstream politics even mentions it.

Indeed, but his whole argument is contradictory and confused. He talks about youth unemployment hitting 41% but also says that we should 'accept unemployment', prevent working class people from pursuing an education that might just strengthen their position in the labour market, and have a situation where only the children of the rich can get graduate jobs. You're looking for polish when all there is is turd.

 

[TruXta]

A friend of an ex-friend said that anyone proven to have been at the protests should be barred from going to uni. This got six Facebook 'likes.'

I teach a group of Uni students here in London and you'd be surprised at how few of these (none of which went to the demos) could see through the media bullshit about it being a violent protest blah blah blah. One girl even opposed an occupation here in the college because the occupation made it impossible for her society to do their rehearsals. I didn't have the heart to blast her in front of everyone for being so incredibly selfish and short-sighted.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Who were the right on Marxists trots and revolutionary's in their youth ........all it takes is one sniff

No, they weren't. Your knowledge of the history of the Labour party is sadly lacking.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I know what, let's abolish the police. Let the mob do what it likes.

Even for you, that's ignorant.

And perhaps, just perhaps, the protesters wouldn't have rioted if the police hadn't decided to use mounted charges to neutralise a negligible threat to the integrity of their cordon?

 

[dennisr]

as taken from Hamlet, when Princey meets his fathers ghost and swears revenge!

one thing i've noticed among some of the well-burrowed moles i still know as mates is the numbers that at now re-appearing - many with kids - some of these youngsters on these demos. the student movement has been genuinely inspirational

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nonsense. Its a Tory government (alright, ConDem ) so people feel empowered to kick off against the traditional enemy.

Because there's never been social disorder under Labour or Liberal govts, oh no!

 

[Threshers_Flail]

That was my impression watching.

Condemnation only for the police

He spoke at an event we had in Manchester earlier in November. He tore the NUS exec member present to shreds. The more time the likes of him get on the tv instead of that twat Porter the better.

 

[ddraig]

National Campaign against Fees and Cuts. He lived with me n mrs belboid a couple of yeasr ago, we taught him everything he knows

tell him he's a star, massive respect for taking the flak on tv and getting the points across
and mostly for not apologising

e2a and the yungun in the red hoodie too

gg - very dissapointed in your strange arguments here, just imagine the plod are lycra clad big boys taking up your cycle path with no lights

 

[Dan U]

tell him he's a star, massive respect for taking the flak on tv and getting the points across
and mostly for not apologising

X2

 

[ViolentPanda]

Does anyone think this ruckus could actually force a change in govt policy? I like to think it could, if the demos keep happening. I'd like to see demos leading the news every week until the govt has a rethink. But am I being naive? Could we really get a Poll Tax-style climbdown and the humiliation of a PM? I don't think it's going to happen unless this dastardly kettling can be overcome. Basically we need much, much bigger demos and more disruption to London life. Doesn't have to be property damage necessarily - anything which paralyses London would do the job. The students need to persuade the rest of the population to join them on the barricades. But I can't see this happening while the media and the NUS are banging on about a small minority of criminal thugs who don't represent anyone. I'm afraid we need sweet, innocent teenagers to be hurt by the police if the grown-ups are going to take to the streets.

I believe that we're going to see a war of attrition, and given the nature of the protests (and not just those by the students) so far, it's going to be difficult to call who breaks first. The media will have to be very forceful about representing dissent as "thuggery" and "riot" to convince "Joe Public" (who will also be affected by the cuts brought about by the budget and the CSR) that the protesters are beyond the pale.

The govt also has the "added burden" that it has to keep spinning some egregiously unfair policies as being "progressive", and in the face of refutation of that claim from all points of the compass.

We live in interesting times.

 

[TopCat]

There has been a massive learning curve, expertly negotiated by the young people. it would be reasonable to assume the demos are going to become better attended, more voracious and successful.

 

[gawkrodger]

anyone heard anything about this?

Two different people I know (and aren't in the habit of making things up) claim there were anti-student counter-protesters who briefly attacked marchers before being beaten back (and not by the OB?)

Plain clothes or far-right?

 

[Proper Tidy]

anyone heard anything about this?

Two different people I know (and aren't in the habit of making things up) claim there were anti-student counter-protesters who briefly attacked marchers before being beaten back (and not by the OB?)

Plain clothes or far-right?

I heard stories of EDL/far-right types intimidating protestors, yes.

 

[Threshers_Flail]

anyone heard anything about this?

Two different people I know (and aren't in the habit of making things up) claim there were anti-student counter-protesters who briefly attacked marchers before being beaten back (and not by the OB?)

Plain clothes or far-right?

That's been stated on the Guardian live blog, the guy who writes there says it was far right. He also writes that the police didn't do anything and just watched as a 60 yr old man and a teenage girl were attacked.

I would find it but I'm on my way.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

There's a logic fail there. If you have a crowd, somebody has to be at the front.

Also, just because someone has shown a bit of bravery, that does not in any way justify them being hurt.

Anyway, this was a demonstration. She and anyone else ought to have the fucking right to be at the front of any demonstration. That you would refuse to stand at the front of a march for fear of being hurt does not give you any right to judge those who would not.

agree

GG - if I was sitting by my daughters hospital bed last night because of police violence should I have blamed her for taking a stand about unfair issues that will affect the rest of her working life ?

 

[dennisr]

Account from a 17 year old lass from Barnsley:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9276000/9276699.stm

 

[ymu]

There has been a massive learning curve, expertly negotiated by the young people. it would be reasonable to assume the demos are going to become better attended, more voracious and successful.

Yep.

Next up: make better use of those police barriers. Rope handles to provide a good knuckle-protecting grip, and to tie two barriers together at one end so that they can be used to force a gap in the police, ie deployed at an acute angle, protecting the protesters inside as they push through the lines - widening out to let everyone else through behind them.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

There has been a massive learning curve, expertly negotiated by the young people. it would be reasonable to assume the demos are going to become better attended, more voracious and successful.

yup october 12th I had to throw a newspaper at my daughter to let her know about the browne review
come nov/dec she's been out three times, been kettled, been shocked that police would push a girl rolleyes and gotten informed and angry

 

[gentlegreen]

agree

GG - if I was sitting by my daughters hospital bed last night because of police violence should I have blamed her for taking a stand about unfair issues that will affect the rest of her working life ?

I only just remembered - didn't this all start because the protest deviated from the agreed route ?

I've been on two events in London over the years - most notably the Rock against Racism one in 1977 - I don't recall any problems at all.

And what of the police who were injured trying to prevent even more carnage. ?