London St Paul's bomb plot: IS supporter Safiyya Shaikh 'got cold feet'

[Manter]

Well yes, she did plan an attack along with them, so it'd be hard not to plead guilty.



Apparently it's not that easy, yup, since she had cold feet and didn't actually attempt to inflict mass murder.

It's tricky, like entrapment usually is. There are a lot of justifications for it - what else can they do to get evidence, really - but it never feels like an open and shut guilty case, to me anyway.

Worth bearing in mind the quote was from her defence, they will never say ‘actually she was really quite dangerous and deluded and if it wasn’t my this plot it’d be another’..... the truth will be somewhere between what defence and prosecution lawyers say.

 

[krtek a houby]

I keep telling you. People who plot mass murder.

If Antifa suppporters plan to blow-up loads of civilians then yes, they should hang too. Or perhaps a firing squad.

Unlikely for the latter. As for the former, presumably you'd be ok with Blair and his lackeys hanging? Or any British government that oversaw the massacre of those who rose up against their colonial masters?

 

[Spymaster]

Unlikely for the latter. As for the former, presumably you'd be ok with Blair and his lackeys hanging? Or any British government that oversaw the massacre of those who rose up against their colonial masters?

If they were found guilty of mass murder via judicial process, I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with it.

 

[krtek a houby]

If they were found guilty of mass murder via judicial process, I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with it.

So, a pretty broad spectrum, then.

And if in any mass murder case, there were innocents convicted like the B6, G4, M7... that would just be unfortunate?

 

[Spymaster]

So, a pretty broad spectrum, then.

And if in any mass murder case, there were innocents convicted like the B6, G4, M7... that would just be unfortunate?

Of course it would be. We should do our very best to avoid executing innocent people and only kill guilty ones.

 

[scifisam]

Worth bearing in mind the quote was from her defence, they will never say ‘actually she was really quite dangerous and deluded and if it wasn’t my this plot it’d be another’..... the truth will be somewhere between what defence and prosecution lawyers say.

True, but regardless of that, it was only in her conversations with those cops that she actually started planning an attack. And then seemed to back down from it - doesn't sound like the prosecutors denied that.

Prison might well be the best place for her, though, given how easily she was persuaded. Next time she might have gone through with it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Their not killing anyone is not in itself a great argument for being nice to someone caught. For example nezar hindawi didn't kill anyone but it's hard to argue he shouldn't have been jailed. In the case under discussion, there may be offences with which yer woman might reasonably be charged. but from what's be n reported I am not persuaded she was the motive force in the plot, that she would have proceeded without influence or encouragement from the police. So yeh do her for her support for Isis but I'm not sure justice is served by acting against her for a plot largely if not entirely created by the police.

 

[Pickman's model]

Prison might well be the best place for her, though, given how easily she was persuaded. Next time she might have gone through with it.

Yeh let's jail the easily persuaded

 

[Spymaster]

True, but regardless of that, it was only in her conversations with those cops that she actually started planning an attack. And then seemed to back down from it - doesn't sound like the prosecutors denied that.

We don’t know that she didn’t instigate that plan. It’s highly likely, given that her defence don’t seem to have cried entrapment, that she did. We do know that she ran a social media channel that encouraged terrorist activity all over the world, which brought her to the attention of the security services in the first place. We also know that she’s pleaded guilty to planning a terror attack. I doubt she took too much entrapping.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sometimes it feels there's a parallell urban operating alongside the one we all know and love.

Some folk bristle at criticism of the police, justice system. Others on this very thread calling for the death penalty and a bit of sympathy for a corporate overlord

It’s almost as if things aren’t always black and white. Who knew?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A whole new generation of idiots and martyrs inspired by the execution of another idiot. That's where.

I don’t recall any particular terror acts being carried out in retaliation for the execution of the Bali bombers. And in spite of their call to arms to carry out repeat attacks, none has happened.

 

[krtek a houby]

It’s almost as if things aren’t always black and white. Who knew?

 

[krtek a houby]

I don’t recall any particular terror acts being carried out in retaliation for the execution of the Bali bombers. And in spite of their call to arms to carry out repeat attacks, none has happened.

Indonesian justice is not a role model to aspire to.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Lots of people do stupid things when they plead. So many of the 2011 people charged with eg looting pled guilty when their interests might have been better served making the crown actually prove their case.

Many would have been bamboozled into doing so by the kangaroo courts set up by (checks notes) Keir Starmer.

 

[planetgeli]

I don’t recall any particular terror acts being carried out in retaliation for the execution of the Bali bombers. And in spite of their call to arms to carry out repeat attacks, none has happened.

Really?

The attack was carried out by Jemaah Islamiyah in 2002.

They then carried out the following;

2003 Marriot hotel, Jakarta
2004 Australian Embassy, Jakarta
2005 bomb Bali
2009 Marriot and Ritz-Carlton hotels, Jakarta

None of these were as big as the original 2002 bombs but all claimed lives, though not Western/Australian lives so they made less impact in the news here and seem to have been largely forgotten in the West.

Jemaah Islamiyah's effectiveness has waned, not because of death penalties as such but due to leaders being captured or killed in shoot-outs. They still have active affiliations with groups in Aceh and the Moro ILF in the Philippines who are constantly at war with the Philippines government.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Indonesian justice is not a role model to aspire to.

Never said it was, but your assertion that executing terrorists creates more terrorists was shown not be to the case when those three were shot.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Really?

The attack was carried out by Jemaah Islamiyah in 2002.

They then carried out the following;

2003 Marriot hotel, Jakarta
2004 Australian Embassy, Jakarta
2005 bomb Bali
2009 Marriot and Ritz-Carlton hotels, Jakarta

None of these were as big as the original 2002 bombs but all claimed lives, though not Western/Australian lives so they made less impact in the news here and seem to have been largely forgotten in the West.

Jemaah Islamiyah's effectiveness has waned, not because of death penalties as such but due to leaders being captured or killed in shoot-outs. They still have active affiliations with groups in Aceh and the Moro ILF in the Philippines who are constantly at war with the Philippines government.

Only one of those happened after the Bali bombers were shot.

 

[planetgeli]

Only one of those happened after the Bali bombers were shot.

I know. This was more in response to the 'repeat attacks' assertion.

 

[Spymaster]

Really?

The attack was carried out by Jemaah Islamiyah in 2002.

They then carried out the following;

2003 Marriot hotel, Jakarta
2004 Australian Embassy, Jakarta
2005 bomb Bali
2009 Marriot and Ritz-Carlton hotels, Jakarta

Those aren't proof of martyrdom and would probably have happened anyway. The idea that murdering bastards would be less murdering bastards if their members weren't executed when captured is ludicrous.

 

[planetgeli]

JI's claim, and please don't mistake me for some sort of support of them, is that all their attacks are retaliation for the war on terror. A vicious circle of 'we kill you' 'then we will kill you back'.

 

[andysays]

Best excuse ever to be fitted up for a suicide vest.

Fitted up sounds about right (maybe that was deliberate on your part, in which case apologies for labouring it).

From what I've read this woman seems more sad than bad. No surprise to see Spymaster doing his usual performance though.

ETA mad changed to bad

 

[Spymaster]

Fitted up sounds about right

This place is priceless sometimes. Without searching too hard you'll find any number of wishes of death upon tories, posh folk, coppers, etc., but posit the idea of executing bomb attack planners who have pledged allegiance to a murdering rape cult and all the usual wallies are up in arms!

 

[SpookyFrank]

True, but regardless of that, it was only in her conversations with those cops that she actually started planning an attack. And then seemed to back down from it - doesn't sound like the prosecutors denied that.

Prison might well be the best place for her, though, given how easily she was persuaded. Next time she might have gone through with it.

But as you say, there really was never an 'it' to go through with.

 

[agricola]

Fitted up sounds about right (maybe that was deliberate on your part, in which case apologies for labouring it).

From what I've read this woman seems more sad than mad. No surprise to see Spymaster doing his usual performance though.

The problem here though is that its the "more sad than mad" who have been carrying out most of the terrorist attacks we've seen in the UK over the past decade.

I can appreciate this can seem close to entrapment, but personally I think there is an argument for - if someone has these views and had them prior to the authorities ever getting involved - that any actions these people are thinking of doing are directed down a path of impossibility (as much as its legally possible to do that).

 

[SpookyFrank]

Without searching too hard you'll find any number of wishes of death upon tories, posh folk, coppers, etc., but posit the idea of executing bomb attack planners who have pledged allegiance to a murdering rape cult and all the usual wallies are up in arms!

Maybe if you compare this woman's body count (nil) to that of, say, Boris Johnson (50,000+) you'll start to get an inkling of why that is.

 

[Spymaster]

Maybe if you compare this woman's body count (nil) to that of, say, Boris Johnson (50,000+) you'll start to get an inkling of why that is.

Plus she was fitted-up, of course!

 

[MickiQ]

Of course it would be. We should do our very best to avoid executing innocent people and only kill guilty ones.

The death penalty has a strong emotional appeal to most people, it certainly does to me and I find the "cruel and unjust punishment" argument just plain daft.
The one massive flaw in it though is the fact that you can't release someone from being dead.
If we had a foolproof method of not hanging the innocent, I would have no issues with excuting the guilty but I am solidly against executing the innocent.

 

[andysays]

The problem here though is that its the "more sad than mad" who have been carrying out most of the terrorist attacks we've seen in the UK over the past decade.

I can appreciate this can seem close to entrapment, but personally I think there is an argument for - if someone has these views and had them prior to the authorities ever getting involved - that any actions these people are thinking of doing are directed down a path of impossibility (as much as its legally possible to do that).

I actually meant to type 'more sad than bad', not sure if autocorrect changed it or if it's my clumsiness.

Something clearly has to be done with this woman, but I think it's a bit much for anyone (not you, to be clear) to say it's a shame she won't hang.

 

[Marty1]

The death penalty has a strong emotional appeal to most people, it certainly does to me and I find the "cruel and unjust punishment" argument just plain daft.
The one massive flaw in it though is the fact that you can't release someone from being dead.
If we had a foolproof method of not hanging the innocent, I would have no issues with excuting the guilty but I am solidly against executing the innocent.

I may support the death penalty for clear cut guilty cases like child killer Ian Huntley who was the embodiment of pure evil.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Plus she was fitted-up, of course!

On the face of it she was fitted up, literally. Presumably it was the two coppers who measured her for her suicide vest.

She was arrested at the point where she bailed out, so despite their best efforts, it appears the police didn't actually succeed in turning her into a suicide bomber.