Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Actually there were reprisals in Misrata. And I gave a narrowly focused answer. I'm not talking about arrests and false detainments of which there have been many.

I've said before Libya isn't a racist society, although there are a few.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

But I came back here to post this story:

'Sirte residents queue to leave city during two-day ceasefire'

Good call from the NTC. At the moment I'm not sure what purpose naval blockades continue to serve.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/02/sirte-residents-leave-ceasefire?newsfeed=true

 

[elbows]

There have been a few signs of this before in recent months, but the issue now appears to be building:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/qatar-interfering-libya?newsfeed=true

The tiny Arab emirate of Qatar, a leading supporter of the revolution inLibya, has been accused by western diplomats of interfering in the country's sovereignty.
The claims come amid growing concern among Libyans in the National Transitional Council (NTC) and western officials that Qatar, which supplied arms to Libyan revolutionaries, is pursuing its own postwar agenda at the cost of wider efforts to bring political stability to the country.
Concern has been mounting over the last month that Qatar is bypassing an internationally agreed assistance strategy to Libya to throw its support behind individuals and factions contributing to the continuing political instability.
A senior diplomat said: "There is a question now about what foreign players like Qatar are doing in Libya – whether it is being helpful and respectful of Libyan sovereignty. "Qatar is not being respectful, and there is a feeling that it is riding roughshod over the issue of the country's sovereignty."
Another diplomatic source said: "This is an issue that has been building steam for some weeks." All foreign powers with an interest in Libya, among which are the US, Britain and France, have had their own agendas. However, the source said: "There is a feeling that Qatar has been providing money and support to certain individuals."
At the centre of concerns are allegations that, rather than supporting the NTC, Qatar has chosen to back favoured key figures with financial and other resources. Most prominent among these woulld be the Islamist head of Tripoli's military council, Abdul-Aziz Belhaj.

 

[Casually Red]

talk about the pot calling the kettle black . Qatar has its interests in destablising Libya just as Nato DID .Just as competing tribes did

Qatar is not being respectful, and there is a feeling that it is riding roughshod over the issue of the country's sovereignty."

for fucks sake

 

[Casually Red]

Fuck off Ali Salabi! You're making a lot of Libyans angry.

any angrier and youll be looking NATO to sort him out for you

 

[Casually Red]

Because they are being lead by donkey's. A good leader would recognise defeat and negotiate surrender terms..

The Libyan government was trying to negotiate terms many months ago and never stopped trying .

They're totally isolated. Many of the people on the ground in these areas don't even realise that Tripoli has fallen to the opposition.

i find that a pretty ridiculous comment to make . We are to assume then that this large town had absolutely no means of electronic communication . Preposterous .

It seems that everybody expected the last stand to be in Tripoli, but instead it is elsewhere in the country

Its not over yet . This continued resistance may well even turn into a guerilla campaign to overthrow these foreign puppets , whether Qatari or NATO . Because thats what they most definitely are and thats what many of those fighting , and im sure many who currently arent , have no intention of ever becoming .[/QUOTE]

 

[elbows]

US government figures I was looking at recently that show projected oil output from all countries in future, show Libyan production falling substantially in the coming years, eventually stabilising at around half the production levels of recent years. The same report has Iraqs output at some very optimistic levels over the next few decades.

Although high oil prices will offset this to an extent, it looks like even without the events of this year, Libya may not quite have the wealth in future that Gaddafi had to play with in recent years.

 

[elbows]

I note that the BBC news was tonight prepared to have a vague look at some of the emerging political differences within Libya. They stuck to a simple tale of some key locations wanting reward for their sacrifices, with Libyans having a strong desire for a united solution to these issues, but they don't know how to because of all those years under Gaddafi. No mention of the international aspect, such as the Qatar stuff, at all. Not terribly surprising really.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I note that the BBC news was tonight prepared to have a vague look at some of the emerging political differences within Libya. They stuck to a simple tale of some key locations wanting reward for their sacrifices, with Libyans having a strong desire for a united solution to these issues, but they don't know how to because of all those years under Gaddafi. No mention of the international aspect, such as the Qatar stuff, at all. Not terribly surprising really.

Redistribution of wealth. That is the key demand. If it is not met, there will be another revolution.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Song for Gaddafi

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

any angrier and youll be looking NATO to sort him out for you

We can cope with him shouting on the sidelines

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...la-fg-libya-fighting-20111006,0,3230775.story

^Most certainly reprisals from some on the rebel side.

 

[elbows]

Rob Crilly, Telegraph correspondent, appears to have had a meltdown on twitter in great style:

http://twitter.com/#!/robcrilly

@gallaghereditor Neville Dean has twisted my copy beyond all recognition. I want you to sack him

I've just told the editor about his foreign news editor and how he screwed me on a story. Think I'll be sacked

I said ntc hadn't decided policy. Neville dean rewrote that new libya govt had refused to work with western gov

Hate being a freelancer when you've just gotta suck it up. In reality people like neville dean maker you lie anyway

Neville dean is a cunt

 

[teqniq]

from this tweet (I know I shouldn't laugh, but....):

mosaaberizing
Just in case proof number 129832 was needed on how badass Libyans were, this photo should settle it:http://j.mp/piyfHw

 

[Crispy]

I don't use the words "epic, bro" lightly

 

[elbows]

After quite a long period where we got a rest from the most fanciful of Gaddafi Family capture rumours, the apparent successes in Sirte mean that this game can recommence. Who knows, it could even be true this time, although rather understandably many people on twitter have learnt something from previous bullshit and are quite cynical about this sort of thing.

So yeah, this time its Mutassim Gaddafi. Captured in Sirte and transferred to Benghazi is the suggestion. Given the number of Gaddafi sons that were on the scene till quite late, you might think they might actually manage to capture one of them eventually, lets see.

 

[elbows]

evanchill Evan Hill

NTC falsely announced Saif's capture during final moments in battle for Tripoli. Similar tactical misinformation to win Sirte fight?

 

[elbows]

Not as good as the guitar one but still.

 

[dylans]

 

[Barking_Mad]

 

[Barking_Mad]

Oh dear...

A gunbattle broke out in the Libyan capital Tripoli on Friday between 20 to 50 armed supporters of deposed leader Muammar Gaddafi and forces of the National Transitional Council (NTC), a Reuters witness and residents said.
NTC fighters in pick-up trucks raced towards the scene in the Abu Salim neighbourhood, a centre of support for Gaddafi. The two sides exchanged automatic and heavy machinegun fire, the Reuters witness said.
Local residents said the group of armed men had appeared in Abu Salim earlier and had begun chanting pro-Gaddafi slogans.
NTC fighters said fighting had also broken out in the nearby Hadhba neighbourhood.
"Gaddafi told them in a message last night to rise up after Friday prayers," said an NTC fighter, Abdullah. "That's why these few people have come out and are causing this problem."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/10/14/uk-libya-tripoli-idUKTRE79D34820111014

 

[Barking_Mad]

ive lost count how many 'last stands' the media have claimed Gaddafi troops have made. the UK press rpoerting has been horribly absent apart from repeating this mantra.

 

[elbows]

Regarding Tripoli, even though I mocked the predictions that further civil war was inevitable, a bit of trouble here and there would not surprise me. But in fact I've been surprised how little trouble there has been until now. Shame I cannot completely trust reported details of any incident, and we were not treated to much in the way of footage of 'normal life' in Tripoli at almost any point, certainly not since Gaddafi lost Tripoli.

As for the places such as Sirte where the overt military struggle continues, I think most of us probably grew quite weary of the familiar pattern of overstated gains a long time ago, and the pretty poor quality of much reporting. The media focus switch from Bani Walid to Sirte was rather blatant. But as the most common pattern involves what used to be called the rebels winning their battles eventually, albeit after a more protracted battle than advertised, I don't presently see whats happening now as a strong indicator of anything important.

 

[dylans]

So much for NATO's mandate to protect civilians. That town has been totally destroyed

 

[Barking_Mad]

lolz

For two hours, we heard a very heavy exchange of gunfire. Word got out that clashes were going on between pro-Gaddafi residents in the area and NTC forces who had moved in.
The problem at this stage in Tripoli is that everyone is armed. When it comes to Abu Salim district itself, a lot of people there are armed there.

A lot of them are suspected to be posing as people who were opposed to Col Gaddafi's regime. They had set up local councils as well and they simply changed the banner when the rebels arrived in August.
That was always a concern for locals in Abu Salim who looked at it as a pro-Gaddafi neighbourhood that really needed to be cleaned out.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Victory for Waha Oil Firm workers yesterday:
http://english.libya.tv/2011/10/14/victory-for-striking-oil-workers-in-libya/

 

[elbows]

So much for NATO's mandate to protect civilians. That town has been totally destroyed

Yeah, unfortunately this was obvious a long time ago. I'm hoping that the whole of Sirte is not quite as damaged as that part of town, but there are reports of large-scale looting, e.g. mentioned in passing at the end of this story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15329119

 

[elbows]

I see the focus has shifted back to Bani Walid, as NTC fighters seem to have been able to enter the town in a big way, to the point that various media say it has been 'captured'.

Meanwhile I stumbled upon this Reuters video which gives a glimpse of the lives of some of those black Libyans who left Tawergha, the town near Misrata that the rebels tuned into a ghost town. They are in a refugee camp:

http://uk.reuters.com/video/2011/10...s-in-bengha?videoId=223556496&videoChannel=75

 

[binka]

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-10-16/india/30285733_1_mbda-missiles-libyan-war

At a time when NATO forces were destroying the bases of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, Britain gave a secret presentation to the Indian Air Force (IAF) about the performance in the Libyan war of MBDA missiles, which have been offered to New Delhi.
"A presentation was given to the Indian Air Force two months ago where senior officers including the present chief (Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne) were present, about the performance of the Brim Stone precision guided missile," Frank Morgan, a senior MBDA executive, told a group of Indian reporters here.

at least some good came of it all then

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Khamis Gaddafi is again being reported dead.

Their Syrian TV station also said he died on August 29th. So - yep he's dead.