Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[Casually Red]

From what I read, the allies are being quite careful not to injure civilians.

After all, the UN mandate is all about protecting civilians.

I have read of bombing runs called off because of civilian vehicles near a target tank, and longer range bombing runs called off by forces on the ground who saw civilians in the vicinity of the target.

for fucks sake just today the same countries airforces massacred more innocent civilians in afghanistan . Fuck knows how many they massacred in Iraq . In Serbia they even managed to blow up the chinese embassy . As well as these people that they can not for one minute claim they didnt notice , and they even came back and bombed the commuter train again



of course theyre blowing the fuck out of civilians there too . Dont trot out shit like this to insult our intelligence .

 

[Idaho]

who as emir of Qatar , foreign minister of Qatar , as well as the stations owner just happens to be the most eager of the Arab leaders to have his forces participate in the bombing of Libya . Qatari jets are flying over Libya as we speak . Whatever its merits Al jazeera simply isnt a reliable source for information on this issue .

Qatar is the only Arab state to have promised Saturday at an emergency meeting in Paris to participate in military operations in Libya.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/20/qatar-defends-participation-in-libya-operations.html

You are right to be wary about trusting Al Jazeera completely. But I don't think they have the scope or lack of oversight from other sources to completely stage manage their news reporting on the issue. There is an editorial line of being pro-Arab revolutions, but that's a long way from being able to say that what we are seeing is a tissue of lies.

 

[Casually Red]

The key issues though of each situation are the questions: what is legitimate to do? and what can we do? .. In the situation in Libya we managed a UN SC Resolution and could do a no-fly zone and thus are doing it, what legitimacy could we have established against Israel with the USA always vetoing action and as you mention they are a heavily armed nuclear state. What in relation to Israel could we actually do?

stop giving them the bombs to drop on people would be a start . Prosecute fuck out of Marks and Spencers as well for breaking the law instead of turning a blind eye . But no , you instead send Tony Blair off to be a peace envoy . The equivalent of putting Fred West in charge of a girl guides camping trip .

 

[Anudder Oik]

Gaddafi scum raping women in Tripoli. The rebels are advancing though, won't be long till the vermin are wiped out.

There was a similar incident 2 days ago to the woman in Tripoli crying in front of journalists and shouting she had been raped but it was when the journos visited suspected Gaddafi supporters held prisoner by Rebel forces in Bengazi.

A 50 odd year old black man from Chad stepped forward and shouted that when they had arrested him in his home they had tortured him and raped his wife. He was said by his captors to be a Yellow helmet and allegedely had a gun in his house when detained.

So it works both ways but we only get one side of the story.

Don't get me wrong. I want the rebels to win. I am just pointing out that impartiality has gone out of the window as far as the media are concerned and emotional blackmail is being exploited to the maximum in an attempt to stifle dissent amongst opponents to the intervention.

 

[Casually Red]

You are right to be wary about trusting Al Jazeera completely. But I don't think they have the scope or lack of oversight from other sources to completely stage manage their news reporting on the issue. There is an editorial line of being pro-Arab revolutions, but that's a long way from being able to say that what we are seeing is a tissue of lies.

how about this from a few weeks ago

There has been a heavy government crackdown on protests, however, and demonstrators at a huge anti-government march in the capital on Monday afternoon said they came under attack from fighter jets and security forces using live ammunition.

"What we are witnessing today is unimaginable. Warplanes and helicopters are indiscriminately bombing one area after another. There are many, many dead," Adel Mohamed Saleh said in a live broadcast.

"Anyone who moves, even if they are in their car, they will hit you."

He said that the violence in Benghazi had left "bodies that are divided in three, four parts. Only legs, and only hands,".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122261251456133.html

total horseshit

and why the fuck is a middle eastern based news agency interviewing someone living in London , a confirmed anti government activist so completely biased, to see whats happening in Libya ? Thats absolutely ridiculous stuuf . Surely only for the purpose of being able to report even more bullshit than they have already .

Mohammed Abdul-Malek, a London-based opposition activist who has been in touch with residents, said that snipers have taken positions on roofs in an apparent bid to stop people joining the protests.

 

[IC3D]

@Casuallyred did you see the treatment of the woman who said she'd been raped by Gadaffis men your an idiot sticking up for this lot mate.

 

[Casually Red]

If she jumped out and started shouting that beside Obama or Cameron what do you think would happen ? A nice cup of tea and a chat ? She'd be on the ground and into the back ofa van in 5 seconds flat . Id be an idiot if i believed even a quarter of this horseshit .

 

[weltweit]

who as emir of Qatar , foreign minister of Qatar , as well as the stations owner just happens to be the most eager of the Arab leaders to have his forces participate in the bombing of Libya . Qatari jets are flying over Libya as we speak . Whatever its merits Al jazeera simply isnt a reliable source for information on this issue .

The BBC is the state owned broadcaster of the British Government, AJE the same of Quatar .. so.

 

[Casually Red]

The BBC is the state owned broadcaster of the British Government, AJE the same of Quatar .. so.

so what ?

 

[weltweit]

so what ?

So, Britain is also part of the allies taking action in Libya ...

i.e. we should also be wary of the BBC ..

Personally I am wary of them all.

 

[Casually Red]

of course im wary of the BBC . However in the case of Al Jazeera in this particular instance it has to be remembered it is owned personally by an autocratic king who is personally heavily involved in the anti Libyan war effort . If a journalist steps out of line its not just their career on the line but their entire lives . Including their Qatari citizenship , which it has been established he strips from Qataris who cross him and force them into exile ( something it has also been established Al Jazeera does not cover in its news bulletins) . A bit more serious than being demoted to reporting on Morris dancers in shropshire .

 

[Idaho]

If a journalist steps out of line its not just their career on the line but their entire lives . Including their Qatari citizenship , which it has been established he strips from Qataris who cross him and force them into exile

I wouldn't imagine any of the English AJ journos have Qatari citizenship. And the industry has enough gossips in it that we would find out pretty quickly if AJE was subject to a large degree of pressure re. content and line.

 

[Casually Red]

with one section of the western media accusing it of being al Qaeda front for years and the other defending it from that type of character assassination for years its hardly likely anyones going to go to the bother . On many issues its fairly good but its Libya coverage has been wholly one sided from the outset , repeating made up tales about massive events that never occured . Entire reports comprising of them . Its language heavily loaded and completely one sided . Fully in support of their owners personal decision to involve Qatar militarily in the conflict on the side of NATO .

 

[Lock&Light]

how about this from a few weeks ago

There has been a heavy government crackdown on protests, however, and demonstrators at a huge anti-government march in the capital on Monday afternoon said they came under attack from fighter jets and security forces using live ammunition.

"What we are witnessing today is unimaginable. Warplanes and helicopters are indiscriminately bombing one area after another. There are many, many dead," Adel Mohamed Saleh said in a live broadcast.

"Anyone who moves, even if they are in their car, they will hit you."

He said that the violence in Benghazi had left "bodies that are divided in three, four parts. Only legs, and only hands,".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122261251456133.html

total horseshit

and why the fuck is a middle eastern based news agency interviewing someone living in London , a confirmed anti government activist so completely biased, to see whats happening in Libya ? Thats absolutely ridiculous stuuf . Surely only for the purpose of being able to report even more bullshit than they have already .

Mohammed Abdul-Malek, a London-based opposition activist who has been in touch with residents, said that snipers have taken positions on roofs in an apparent bid to stop people joining the protests.

You would have made a perfect correspondant for Pravda.

 

[Lock&Light]

The BBC is the state owned broadcaster of the British Government, AJE the same of Quatar .. so.

The first part of that statement is untrue, and I think the second part is too.

 

[Lock&Light]

Id be an idiot if i believed even a quarter of this horseshit .

I'm afraid you have proved to be an idiot anyway.

 

[Casually Red]

no i havent , despite your devastatingly caustic asides.

 

[Casually Red]

You would have made a perfect correspondant for Pravda.

Oh Im sorry . You believe this actually happened then afterall ? Thats interesting .

 

[weltweit]

The first part of that statement is untrue, and I think the second part is too.

The BBC is nationally owned and funded from taxation. I think we can expect as much independence from their regims from AL Jazeera as we can from the BBC.

 

[Casually Red]

unlike qatar governments in the UK change . We'd also need to know what the laws are in Qatar to prevent interference . Which i suspect quite strongly isnt illegal . Things must be fine though as there doesnt appear to be any unhappiness in Qatar about the place being ruled by a self appointed monarch . According to Al Jazeera anyway .

 

[Lock&Light]

The BBC is nationally owned and funded from taxation. I think we can expect as much independence from their regims from AL Jazeera as we can from the BBC.

You can think that, and you are entitled to think that, but I still don't think you are right.

 

[weltweit]

Anyhow, in other news, Sunday I think brings us the conference of interested parties in Libya in London at which I hope they will discuss things like:

1) what is the end game
2) what would one consider a successful outcome
3) should we arm the rebels
4) just who in fact are the rebels
5) how will the UN defend civilians when the rebels march on Tripoli
6) how long, in days, months, or years will this all take!

I will be interested to see how they get on.

 

[IC3D]

 

[Lock&Light]

I will be interested to see how they get on.

Unsurprisingly, you're not alone.

 

[weltweit]

Now here is a story we can all get our teeth into ..

CORRECTED - Libya may be placing corpses at bombed sites -Gates
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFN2610487720110326

WASHINGTON, March 26 (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence reports suggest that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces have placed the bodies of people they have killed at the sites of coalition air strikes so they can blame the West for the deaths, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said in a television interview on Saturday.

"We do have a lot of intelligence reporting about Gaddafi taking the bodies of the people he's killed and putting them at the sites where we've attacked," Gates said according to interview excerpts released by CBS News' "Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer" program, which will air on Sunday.
...

 

[Casually Red]

He stood by us then , stand by him now !!!!!!

 

[Casually Red]

 

[Kippa]

Just curious why has France too such a pro active role in Libya from the very start ? Does this have more to do with the internal politics of france? What does Sarkozy gain from this?

 

[Casually Red]

what Thatcher gained from Las Malvinas . Global reach , military prestige and winning an electon - theres local elections next week where his party is expected to take a chinning and presidential ones next year. Not to mention a very sweet deal on oil, gas and uranium if his proxies manage to win thanks to western air superiority doing the job for them . On top of that NATO effectively becomes the enforcer of whatever motions they can get through the UNSC . A NATO that France and Britian will effectively be leading by the nose .
In short the world pretty much at his mercy .

 

[Kippa]

The french national party seems to be getting gains in french politics, does this have more to do with Sarkozy's potential second term? It just seems as if the French have played a large role and I am wondering why?