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Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

ernestolynch

Banned
Banned
NATO to attack the most independent state in Africa.

NB - Thank you to the Urban75 moderators who have now removed their pro-NATO thread title which one of them imposed.
 
Do they have unhindered access to t'interwebs in Libya?

Mate of mine has just moved to Tripoli and regularly posts on Facebook, but I doubt it's unhindered. You can use FB here in Burma, but blogs and plenty of other sites are blocked. The govt also slow the internet down to snails pace when necessary.
 
Do they have unhindered access to t'interwebs in Libya?

some people reporting coms down in Benghazi where things are kicking off after arrest of human rights campaigner. (ghaddafi grew up there)


Also many many complaints that huffington post amongst others incorrectly reporting that some demo was pro ghaddafi when it was anti ghaddafi.
 
I can't help get the feeling that this might be the 21st century's defining historical event (not Libya, the whole thing) and I don't really understand what's going on at all.
 
I can't help get the feeling that this might be the 21st century's defining historical event (not Libya, the whole thing) and I don't really understand what's going on at all.

Undemocratic systems of rule meet uncensored internet channels.

Banning internets = protests, not banning internet = protests.

You almost feel sorry for the little dictators...
 
Undemocratic systems of rule meet uncensored internet channels.

Banning internets = protests, not banning internet = protests.

You almost feel sorry for the little dictators...

And the internet generation. Loads of educated but underemployed under 30s with well-off parents, who've often travelled. And if they haven't they still have access to the outside world via the internet. They're fed up and feel this is their time.

If most fail we won't have to change much, human rights campaigners will be largely ignored as per, regimes will just clamp down harder with a few fairly ineffectual concessions polished up for foreign media's consumption. But if they succeed the govts of the rest of the world will have to rewrite the rules on their relationships with the Middle East. The 'fallout' will still be being dealt with for most of the rest of century, I reckon.

Be nice to see something form from the ground up but I suspect the capitalists will be the big winners same as usual. Much of this same educated but underemployed youth will be happy once their lot improves, will be bought off before too much improves with the poorest.

So yes, I agree, although it's early in the century, this is major.
 
What's staggering about this part of the world is how young the average age of the people are compared to the West - you are talking in the region of 23, 24, 25; while here it is about 40
 
Yeah the powers that be have had their eyes on the 'dangerous demographic realities' of the region for some time.

Its really unclear right now how many of these protests will turn into revolution.

As for these being the defining events of the 21st century, I suspect its going to be a very busy century indeed and even if a lot of these protests turn into revolution there could be a lot of other heavy stuff in store for the decades ahead that could eclipse the events of 2011.
 
Some useful analysis from the Guardians Middle East editor Ian Black, taken from their live updates page:

Libya's "day of rage," inspired by the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, was due to have take place on Thursday but began prematurely with clashes overnight in the eastern city of Benghazi, where 38 demonstrators were injured in clashes with security forces.

Libyan opposition sources say they believe the trouble was deliberately provoked by the authorities to undermine tomorrow's main event — and intimidate people into keeping off the streets.

Sporadic trouble has been reported from Benghazi, the country's second city, in recent weeks, and the latest outbreak was linked to protests over the infamous massacre of over 1000 prisoners at Abu Salim in 1996 — a bloody landmark in Muammar Gaddafi's 42-year rule. But like previous unrest, it remains local and has not coalesced into opposition at the national level. So far.

"This could snowball into something big," says Ashour Shamis, a veteran Libyan opposition activist. "There are grievances all over the country. But this looks like a spoiler by the government."

Libya's experience of the "Arab spring" may be different from that of its North African neighbours for several reasons. Its enormous oil and gas reserves and small population (6.5m) mean it is relatively wealthy — four times as rich as Egypt — and can afford to buy off dissent.

It is also far less free than either of its neighbours, with a pervasive secret police and little in the way of a free media or independent institutions. Behind the facade of the popular committees the security state still looks unassailably powerful.

Gaddafi's Jamahiriya or "state of the masses" has seen a revolution in its foreign relations over the last decade since it surrendered the Lockerbie bombing suspects, stopped supporting terrorism and gave up its wepaons of mass destruction.

Economic liberalisation has benefited a small middle class but otherwise there has been little domestic change. Libya is extremely corrupt by international standards, though there is less of the flaunting of wealth by the elite than in Tunisia. Its army and security services, based on strong tribal loyalties, would almost certainly step in with force in the event of serious political upheaval and possibly take over the country completely.

Gaddafi — now the longest-serving of all Arab leaders — remains as vigorous and eccentric as ever. Talk of the succession of his reformist-minded son, Saif al-Islam, has faded recently in the face of resistance by the old guard. Another son, Mutasim, is a rising star as his father's national security adviser.

Like other Arab regimes it is capable of easing tensions by concessions such as raising subsidies to keep food prices down. But plans to release the remaining prisoners of the long-banned Libyan Islamic Fighting Group who have renounced violence pre-date the current unrest.
 
This vid on youtube purports to be from Libya:

*warning* shot person


If anyone understands Arabic it would be great if they could translate.
 
This vid on youtube purports to be from Libya:

*warning* shot person


If anyone understands Arabic it would be great if they could translate.

I have no idea if this is the same video that the BBC talk about here:

1457: BBC Arabic has been told by Libyan opposition sources that the video that appeared to show gunfire in Benghazi and was published by the BBC News website was uploaded to YouTube more than a year ago. The BBC had been told earlier by the Libyan opposition that the video showed clashes on Tuesday.
 
This vid on youtube purports to be from Libya:

*warning* shot person


If anyone understands Arabic it would be great if they could translate.

Um, title says:

Libyan Revolution began and the latter came the role of Gaddafi

hm, cheers google translate.


Today is the official day of rage. We'll see if Ghaddafi's alleged ploy to send out agent provocateurs then quash demos works. Not if they have been inspired by recent events elsewhere.

Ghaddafi's regime is apparently the most bloodthirsty of the lot.
 
Lots of reports on Twitter that it's all kicking off and many people are being killed, but there is very limited info coming out, so hard to work out or confirm what is actually going on. I will try and collect some tweets if I can make sense of things.

Search for: #Libya #feb17 #feb12 #gaddafi #benghazi #Tripoli
 
time / location / @twitter (name) "tweet"

4.50pm / Benghazi / @libyansrevolt / (Libyans Revolt) / "10,000 protestors outside Courts in #benghazi expect videos soon. #feb17 #libya"

5.00pm / Ajdabiya / @ShababLibya / (LibyanYouthMovement) / "URGENT if anybody can make contact with AJDABIYA city please message me or any news agency Reports of a massacre #Libya #Feb17"

5.00pm / Libya / @ShababLibya / (LibyanYouthMovement) / "According to Al Arabiya news: 6 dead in #Benghazi 5 in #Bayda today MEDIA this is more then anywhere on first day!! #Feb17 #Libya"

5.30pm / Benghazi / @ShababLibya / (LibyanYouthMovement) / "latest from Benghazi: eye witness protesters now on Jilyana bridge, with security firing at them #Libya #Feb17 Libya is in a crisis"

5.30pm / Fashlooma / @Doma / (Doma) / "Riot police outnumbered but crowd has yet to act, pro G'Daff keep driving by. Mood is tense."

5.30pm / Tripoli / @amtfoto / (anis taghdi) / "an estimated 1000 people currently out in #Tripoli (Dahra and Fashloom) also crowded with traffic #Libya #Feb17"

5.40pm / Libya / @SultanAlQassemi / (Sultan Al Qassemi) / "Breaking Al Arabiya: Death toll in Libyan clashes today reaches 19. Via @AlArabiya_Eng"

5.45pm / Benghazi / @ShababLibya / (LibyanYouthMovement) / "reports coming in, 20,000 people demonstrating in Benghazi but live fire being used #Libya #Feb17 unconfirmed"

6.20pm / Al Bayda / @ShababLibya / (LibyanYouthMovement) "Breaking: 10 to 14 shot dead in Al Bayda Feb17 #Libya"
 
5.50pm Benghazi
@ShababLibya (LibyanYouthMovement)
http://bit.ly/fnCW9s
"2 SHOT DEAD IN BENGHAZI @bbclysedoucet @AJArabic @AJEnglish @jrug #Libya #Feb17 PLS SHOW THIS URGENT"


"Powerful video, man gets killed, shabab carry him away, run after his killers ENORMOUS CROWDS "
 
Libya protests: Colonel Muammar Gaddafi turns helicopter gunships on own people - Telegraph, 4:45PM GMT 17 Feb 2011
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-turns-helicopter-gunships-on-own-people.html

"Varied reports said that Libyan security forces killed demonstrators in Benghazi, al-Baida, Ar Rajban, Zintan and a Tripoli suburb. Human Rights Solidarity, a campaign group, said that snipers on rooftops in Al-Baida – a city of 210,000 inhabitants – had killed 13 protesters and wounded dozens of others. Police stations in the town were set on fire as protesters burned posters of Col Gaddafi. Other opposition websites said that six people had been killed in Benghazi after clashes broke out at the funerals of two people killed the day before. Hospitals in the second city were reported to have received scores of injured...

...A heavy turn out of pro-regime supporters bearing sticks and placards praising the "brother leader" – who has ruled Libya since 1969, failed to deter protests in Tripoli, hitherto a bastion of Gaddafi's regime. Students had been bused into Green Square, the symbolic heart of Gaddafi's revolutionary regime, but as soon as the dusk fell equally youthful protesters emerged in the crowds of Omar Al-Mukhtar street, the capital's premier avenue."
 
6.30pm
@ShababLibya (LibyanYouthMovement)
"BREAKING: security belonging to the sons of #gaddafi in baida (where they live) have opened fire injuring 100s &killing 3, #Libya #Feb17"
 
Tripoli seems a bit different. Pictures here: http://twitpic.com/photos/Doma
It seems that pro-government people (about 1000?) with lots of cars and pick-ups have occupied the main square all day to deter anti-government protesters, who have been waiting until sunset before making a move?
 
wMzmKEAxNZf.jpg
 
A clumsy translation of a call to arms, well protests.

"We are sons of Omar Mukhtar, the DNA in order to be free"

After great demand, which have largely calls for the Day of anger in Libya, and thank God big numbers that systems that we have launched a campaign since the days must be noted and referred to some important points regarding Ours aromatic in all parts of Libya, free.

Of us fear that the internal security apparatus to cut off Internet Kaktop proactive seen too mention some important points.

1. We call upon all Libyans in all parts of Libya to participate with us positive, even if the deployment of this invitation to all friends.

2. To escort each person the greatest possible number of friends to gather in places of the demonstration.

3. Unifying slogans: Do not sectarian slogans or belonging to the party or movement, group or association. We all Libyans.

4. Addressed to tear gas: wash face with soap made in advance of olive oil, and during the infection do not touch the eyes, its effects are temporary and do not be afraid and could use a drink Pepsi and wash your face when injury.

5. Everyone demands patience and not rush no matter how many short and gathered Ihbd to be filming any gathering no matter how small the sites listed below to ensure that your voice to the largest number of Libyans.

6. We maintain calm a peaceful demonstration to demand our rights as long as Gaddafi said in Ktabath we the people to decide our own destiny, here we decided to go down the street and express our destiny in our own way of civilization and our own civilization.

O descendants of choice, join together in drawing a bright future free of Libya, the youth of our decent life comparable to those oil-producing countries which respect the Mwatiniha and provide him with all the amenities of housing and work and the value of humanity.

Each one of us to participate and find all the participants and not the Istno Taatokro ..

These are some places that we intend to please and by the presence of the brothers in areas that did not remember to send us their suggestions for the benefit to all and to ensure the largest possible number of participation:

tweet:

Bayda: between 25 and 35 dead in Bayda in total, and lots lots more injured, the youth are working tirelessly

Ghaddafi is not afraid of high death counts.

tweet:

#libya is a country of 6million ppl, spread all over the place. however, they are all slowly rising up to gaddafi. don't forget us

Map of protests:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=215454646984933465708.00049c59184ae1136341a

tweet:

Egypt 80 million 350 died in 18days Tunisia 10 million 75 died in 28 days Libya 6 million about 80 dies in 3 days shame on u Qadfi


He's so bad he's got 2 hitler moustaches.

180507_203583799657574_197898230226131_904314_1524900_n.jpg
 
Someone getting their head blown off by gaddafi's murdering scum in Ajdabiya yesterday (after 2 minutes in) :(




Just one of the more than 80 people killed yesterday in Libya.
 
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