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    Lazy Llama

Libertarian Party Uk

There was a time when the education system was considered to be -- and arguably was -- an agent of social mobility.

State schools should all be given the same amount of money per pupil but be entirely free to spend it how they wish.

I agree although I would like to see this applied to ALL schools, and I would like to see ALL schools to be part of the National Curriculum. Additional resources could then be directed to the failing schools and adult education.
 
Personal possessions ARE property. Why would it be different?

Are you suggesting that there are certain things which are not to be for sale?

In discussions of this nature, a distinction is drawn between private property and personal possessions. For someone so keen to quote the anarchist faq, you don't seem to have actually read any of it!
 
In discussions of this nature, a distinction is drawn between private property and personal possessions. For someone so keen to quote the anarchist faq, you don't seem to have actually read any of it!

Why do you feel the need to draw such a distinction? Do you need the distinction to justify robbery? :eek:
 
There are plenty of reasons why (the fact that production is necessarily social and so on) - that you haven't come across them is telling.
 
Capitalists use private property to justify robbery certainly.

I've already stated why their is a distinction.
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secB3.html
This expands further.

First I would like to say that just directing people towards large bodies of text is a poor way to discuss, which is why i prefer to summarise things.

First a quote:
To summarise, anarchists are in favour of the kind of property which "cannot be used to exploit another -- those kinds of personal possessions which we accumulate from childhood and which become part of our lives." We are opposed to the kind of property "which can be used only to exploit people -- land and buildings, instruments of production and distribution, raw materials and manufactured articles, money and capital."
I can recognise the exploitation which the passage refers to. But really it is childlike to go on about this being unfair. Being able to draw a distinct line between these forms of property is pretty much impossible - and spending time theorising about a world without such a situation would be a waste of time. Sure life might be great if we had all cooperatives, but people would still need to do what they were told by those in charge - there is not always the time to discuss things ad infinitum until we all agree...

It should be pointed out that the UK with its botched revolution and lack of written constitution means that the workers are more open to abuse than elsewhere.

The key problem is that many jobs are unskilled and the workers are worth less in these jobs than others. If you get yourself a skill which is valuable in the economy then people will treat you well. If you don't then you will be unskilled and no doubt you will be treated badly because you are easily replaced.

I might add that we all had the opportunity to work hard at school and to succeed. If we chose not to do this, then we might try and blame our parents etc but actually the only person who made this decision was you.

However all parties are working towards a fairer society and one has to ask what such a society might look like? I would suggest that aiming at private property is useless at best and might be seen as theft at worst. I have set out my ideas for land reform which cuts back the rights of the propertied, but to argue for its abolishment is just a waste of time.

If everyone who recognised the need for change would try and engage in the creation of a constitution which we could be proud of then that would be constructive. Sadly most of the people on these boards are more concerned with being rude to each other, and it is this inability to unite which keeps our unfair society as unfair as it is.
 
Once you recognise that people have basic property rights, it is only a short step from there towards using your property as collateral.

That, in a nutshell, is the problem with Proudhon's theories. There is no hard and fast distinction between private property as capital and personal possession. However in a society where the means of production are collectively owned and the needs of all are catered for there will be no impulse to use personal possessions as collateral. If anarchism is worth anything it is the achieving of liberty through socialism means rather than the achieving of socialism through libertarian means.

Proudhonism is in so ways to the right of modern liberalism - the idea that workers own what they produce and the proprietor steels from them is thoroughly backward. It stands against any form of investment in anything which is unproductive. There really is common ground between anarchists and the libertarian right.
 
If you spent some time reading the things you like to quote, maybe you'd know.

I can read what point that faq has to make. I didn't ask that, I asked what point YOU wish to make.

Just sitting on the sidelines waving vaguely towards THOUSANDS of words is hardly what I would call constructive.
 
I can read what point that faq has to make. I didn't ask that, I asked what point YOU wish to make.

Just sitting on the sidelines waving vaguely towards THOUSANDS of words is hardly what I would call constructive.

Why use thousands when five will do eh?
 
Couldn't resist this. LPUK are fielding a libertarian fetus as their candidate in the forthcoming Norwich North by-election:

thomas-burridge-ppc-929.jpg


On the campiagn trail:

meeting-up1-477.jpg


LPUK = providing lots of lols ever since our inception.
 
"An end to State funding of lifestyle choices. People dependent on the State shall not normally get additional housing or cash provision if they expand their family either through birth or the accumulation of additional dependants for whatever reason"
 

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tim aker?

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he's also bizarrely got this image on his facebook profile...
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and this one...
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those were the most amusing things i could find on his facebook profile anyway. gotta love people who don't make their profiles private.
 
For all of you with a distaste of the collectivist three main parties

Here is the Libertarian party of the UK

Website here


Im standing in Hornsey and Wood Green

manifesto here
They want to trash the NHS. The cunts.

Our aim is to enable people to hold their healthcare provider to account and, if found wanting, have the freedom to take their business elsewhere. This cannot be done while the State is the monopoly provider who takes payment, commissions, runs and administers that monopoly. We will introduce measures to redress this position, whilst maintaining existing commitments in areas such as care for the elderly and the mentally ill.
 
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