nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Say, where have I heard that one before?
You missed the edited version of my post, "Al"...
Libertarian and Liberal
- Thread starter Gmart
- Start date
You missed the edited version of my post, "Al"...
You missed the edited version of my post, "Al"...
why shouldn't I listen to Gmarthews ? He was spot on about Butchers apron though I have yet to have abuse from you VP seems to have joined in some stuff seemingly at my expense.
When anyone starts lying about what I said or throws mindless abuse I'll just put them on ignore and have no further dealings and they can snigger as much as they wish.
As for edited -why not just post it all without hiding behind your editing ?
I Can't ignore you yet for just being tedious and sniggery but I suppose its just a matter of time.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No one did. You just got caught out posting up a load of absurd inaccuracies and don't want to face the music. Pretend it didn't happen. Stick your head in the sand. Run away
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I'm not "hiding", are you?
what is this 'edited'version of your post then ?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What invective are you talking about?
So far, all I've read are a few polite suggestions that Rand's "philosophy" might not have much utility, and a few tetchy suggestions that GMart might be, yet again, getting hold of the wrong end of the stick in one of his attempts to be iconoclastic.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Oh my god!!!!! For real!!!!!
I really hope this isn't a replay of the max_freakout "anarchism" fiasco.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
I really hope this isn't a replay of the max_freakout "anarchism" fiasco.
That was a good one.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That's pretty much a waste of a website. Reactionary waffle dressed up as ideology. Their "Welfare" section contradicts itself as much as the "Immigration" section does.
No wonder they're unelectable.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Wow, a genuine persecution complex!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I checked their report to the electoral comission as well, it reads basically (i kid you not):
Wow, a genuine persecution complex!
Well Gmarthews was right thats 2 out of three
bye bye VP
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Example? I would be truly interested but my decision to have him on ignore is after months of trying to get him to discuss issues sensibly only to have him throw vitriol and waffle in an attempt to derail the thread.
Al Kahul put it very well when earlier talking to BA:
Well you seem to have libertarian views which echo my own, so I don't know what yr on about here.
And as far as those who feel that my views are 'thick as shit' etc I would point out that I have always spent a long time crafting my posts with a great deal of thought. Some people appreciate this, some can't be bothered to read them, but I suggest that they are not at all 'thick as shit'. Still people are entitled to think what they wish and I care not a jot.
I have BA, VP and Nino on ignore because they have consistently failed to engage in discussion, preferring instead to use my threads to lecture their own bullshit (as opposed to conversation). They seem unable to start threads for themselves to do this, and I find it rude.
Bravo!!
If anyone cares to trawl through GMart's endless attempts to leave his intellectual stamp on Urban they'll possibly notice one thing above anything else: The fact that all three people he has on his "ignore" list "engaged in discussion" ad nauseam with him and his ideas, and that what actually occurred is that when people failed to be swept off their feet by his intellectual acumen, and dared to say "hey, I think you've got that a bit arse-about-face", GMart got a strop on.
Poor fella!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
FM and blagsta - he's coming for you next....
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
With a "w"?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's almost as if people like Al and GMart come here to have their egos massaged, and can't bear it when we're not all stunned by the brightness of the ir observations.
Fuck me, even baldwin isn't that deluded!
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
This is my favourite non-exhaustive list of free market "libertarian" types:
“Economic libertarians”, corporate stockholm syndrome sufferers, robust individualists who live at their parents’ place, self-hating Republicans of any nation, right-wing-versions-of-Rik-from-The-Young-Ones, lackwits who can have their thumbs taken out of their mouths and replaced by the market’s spigot without noticing, belligerent solipsistic cretins for whom thinking more than no steps ahead would cause an aneurism, mealy-mouthed pissants for whom no problem is too great despite having no problems, bewildered ethical illiterates who believe that society can be transformed without transforming them (just making them richer), birds who believe they could fly faster in a vacuum without all this atmospheric drag.
Libertwatrians.
“Economic libertarians”, corporate stockholm syndrome sufferers, robust individualists who live at their parents’ place, self-hating Republicans of any nation, right-wing-versions-of-Rik-from-The-Young-Ones, lackwits who can have their thumbs taken out of their mouths and replaced by the market’s spigot without noticing, belligerent solipsistic cretins for whom thinking more than no steps ahead would cause an aneurism, mealy-mouthed pissants for whom no problem is too great despite having no problems, bewildered ethical illiterates who believe that society can be transformed without transforming them (just making them richer), birds who believe they could fly faster in a vacuum without all this atmospheric drag.
Libertwatrians.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
That was a good one.
It was too good.
At one point I laughed so hard while replying to one of his posts that one of my back muscles went into spasm for several hours and I had to take a diazepam and morphine cocktail to get it to stop twitching and hurting.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
*bites nails nervously*
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Are you being deliberately thick or what? I edited my post to more accurately reflect the situation. Nonetheless, you seem to have a real persecution complex that is coupled with arrogance. It's interesting that you didn't deal with the edited question. Have you got something to hide?
Knock yourself out, chum. Btw, you appear to have a problem with the appropriate and correct use of upper and lower case letters.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I think he's already done Fridge.
I know, and all I did was laugh at the UK Libertoryans! Imagine if I'd called Von Mises a cunt.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Most of them would have to google him, I reckon. They might know who you were talking about if you mentioned von Hayek, though.
Anyway, how could anyone with a rational bone in their body not laugh at the UK "Libertarians"? That website is comedy gold!
Care to critique it properly VP?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The critique involves their positions actively contradicting several basic "libertarian" positions. They basically want to maintain standard UK right-wing positions, call them libertarian for (I assume) social reasons and twist and turn like twisty turny things to justify them. Immigration for example - saying "oh no we're not ready for free movement of people" as well as having no apparent interest in moving towards that position is just laughable.
Here's the problem thought FM, it's a variant on what I'd call the "anarchism tomorrow" or "socialism tomorrow" argument (in this case it's "miniarchism tomorrow"). Notwithstanding an almost instantaneous worldwide transformation into any one of these 'ideal types', the advocate of one of these political ideologies has to contend with the fact that even if they achieved their ideal type in one nation, they have to contend with surrounding nations being fundamentally different, if not outwardly hostile.
We can't have any of these 'ideal types' tomorrow, so we have to take baby steps towards them.
LPUK is a political party, set up with a view to people (eventually) gaining seats in the current political structure as it stands. From this point it has to contend with two other crucial factors: i) being as electable as possible without compromising on core principles (something that Respect, for example, threw out the window) and ii) still maintaining some kind of realpolitik without, again compromising core principles.
As you would expect with any political grouping, there's a lot of different perspectives coming together under a general banner and often the least worst option has to be chosen for there to be any kind of progress. A lot of discussion has taken place behind the scenes and a lot of the positions are still being worked out. Many right-libertarian positions advocate, long term, some kind of open borders philosophy; this is predicated however on the remainder of the world also adopting a similar position. Which of course, entails exactly the same problems that left-libertarians encounter:
If you're talking about making progress it has to be one step at a time, and with one discrete entity at a time - in this case the UK. There are plenty of people on the left who want to see a revision of immigration policies, having legitimate concerns about how immigrant labour is (ab)used by the political and business elites. The same concerns occur on the right-libertarian side also. Out of interest FM - are you an open borders advocate? In the context of some kind of "national interest" (however nebulous that concept might be) and in the current international system you have to admit that advocating such a policy - in one nation - would be insane surely?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
My own position is irrelevant as I will not be voting for them anyway. The fact remains that if you are theoretically for the free movement of goods, capital and people, dumping the "people" aspect for whatever reason, making no particular moves towards it and in fact encouraging a _harsher_ attitude to movement of certain people (asylum seekers, here) means you are not terribly convincing as being ideologically consistent, and instead appear to be aping current authoritarian points.
Similarly for lots of other parts; insisting on a strong military capable of "projecting force" across the globe, for instance, doesn't say to me "the state should only be engaging in military action for the explicit purposes of self-defence", it says "we are mimicking traditional tough-on-defence policies that exist in current right-wing parties and using 'pre-emptive defence' as an excuse" (something which US libertarians are generally not at all keen on, actually, or at least the serious ones).
Similarly for lots of other parts; insisting on a strong military capable of "projecting force" across the globe, for instance, doesn't say to me "the state should only be engaging in military action for the explicit purposes of self-defence", it says "we are mimicking traditional tough-on-defence policies that exist in current right-wing parties and using 'pre-emptive defence' as an excuse" (something which US libertarians are generally not at all keen on, actually, or at least the serious ones).
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