Libertarian and Liberal

[Al Kahul]

Yes, you keep saying that you're "left" without saying what it is that makes you "left".

no _ I keep saying I am on the left side of libertarianism .

 

[Blagsta]

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.26

 

[Blagsta]

no _ I keep saying I am on the left side of libertarianism .

Yes, what is "left" about it?

 

[Blagsta]

results


Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.77

Liberal

 

[danny la rouge]

Here's me this time:

Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.44

(It is, of course, flawed, and it does make statist assumptions, but as a blunt tool it's a fair indicator).

 

[danny la rouge]

results


Economic Left/Right: 2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.77

There you go, now we can place you to the right of the Pope, and a little more libertarian than the Dalai Lama.

 

[Blagsta]

There you go, now we can place you to the right of the Pope, and a little more libertarian than the Dalai Lama.

His results have changed.

Definitely a liberal and not very left!

 

[danny la rouge]

His results have changed.

Definitely a liberal and not very left!

You mean he was ashamed of hids real responses?

 

[Blagsta]

You mean he was ashamed of hids real responses?

His first response was more left!

 

[danny la rouge]

His first response was more left!

Bloody liberals!

 

[butchersapron]

there is a stange difficulty some people here have in working out that something can be 'left' of something else without being on the left.

Hearing some people wittering on you would think that people would object to the station "Lambeth North' because its in the south of London.

Right libertarians tend to be pro military ,anti immigration,anti green,anti animal welfare .Left libertraians tend to the opposite.

You said that your postion is to the left of right libertarianism. I asked you (repeatdly and explaining exactly what i meant)to say how it is to the left of this right-libertarianism, not why you were on the left. i.e i was using your relational approach.

It seems to me that the term libertarianism, in its US usage (and that of the UK libertarian parties) is redundant, as alll those things you list are surely in no sense (no matter where you're coming from) 'libertarian - they've clearly much more in common with various authoritarianisms. Seems like a good argument for people like you to ditch the term - or at least use in it in it's proper, original usage.

 

[Al Kahul]

Liberal

a very anti authoritarian liberal.

 

[danny la rouge]

a very anti authoritarian liberal.

By the looks of it, a Classic Liberal.

 

[Al Kahul]

You said that your postion is to the left of right libertarianism. I asked you (repeatdly and explaining exactly what i meant)to say how it is to the left of this right-libertarianism, not why you were on the left. i.e i was using your relational approach.

It seems to me that the term libertarianism, in its US usage (and that of the UK libertarian parties) is redundant, as alll those things you list are surely in no sense (no matter where you're coming from) 'libertarian - they've clearly much more in common with various authoritarianisms. Seems like a good argument for people like you to ditch the term - or at least use in it in it's proper, original usage.

you mean in the usage that you like .How can it be 'proper' is there some sort of 'Academie anglaise' to define it ?

how do you react to people who want to put civil sanction on thoughtcrime ?
ie ban 'racist' sexist or Homophobic speech ?

 

[Al Kahul]

By the looks of it, a Classic Liberal.

are they very anti authoritarian then ?

 

[kabbes]

What's wrong with being a classic liberal? At least we're nice people with our hearts in the right place. Better than those bloody conservative reactionary free-market-fundamentalist types, that's for sure.

 

[butchersapron]

you mean in the usage that you like .How can it be 'proper' is there some sort of 'Academie anglaise' to define it ?

how do you react to people who want to put civil sanction on thoughtcrime ?
ie ban 'racist' sexist or Homophobic speech ?

Yeah, in the original uasge - one that fits with the term. I like that. Not stuff that contradicts libertarian impulses.

I abuse them with thoughtcrime. Did i avoid the trap!!!

 

[danny la rouge]

are they very anti authoritarian then ?

They're all dead: Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire. Those guys.

 

[kabbes]

And better than those authoritarian so-called-"libertarians" that want borders and large armies 'n'all.

 

[Blagsta]

What's wrong with being a classic liberal? At least we're nice people with our hearts in the right place. Better than those bloody conservative reactionary free-market-fundamentalist types, that's for sure.

What's wrong with it would depend on your politics. From my pov, what is wrong is the idea that "the market" should rule all aspects of our lives.

 

[kabbes]

Well, as a -1 classic liberal, I'm not sure I'd go along with it ruling *all* your life. Let's split the difference and call it 50%. Deal?

 

[Gmart]

And better than those authoritarian so-called-"libertarians" that want borders and large armies 'n'all.

For me a libertarian believes in people, and so trusts them to make the right decision. The borders and large armies are from the conservatives who do NOT trust in people, and who thus spend all their money on guns.

The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have,
the less self-reliant people will be.

 

[Al Kahul]

Yeah, in the original uasge - one that fits with the term. I like that. Not stuff that contradicts libertarian impulses.

I abuse them with thoughtcrime. Did i avoid the trap!!!

you abuse them ?

So you condemn the people the physically attack people for having contrary opinions about society then ?

 

[kabbes]

You do not need a sizeable army to avoid being invaded. Germany and Japan both seem to have managed.

Having a large army is about imperialism, pure and simple.

 

[Al Kahul]

Yeah, in the original uasge - one that fits with the term. I like that. Not stuff that contradicts libertarian impulses.

I abuse them with thoughtcrime. Did i avoid the trap!!!

you abuse them ?

So you condemn the people the physically attack people for having contrary opinions about society then ?

 

[Al Kahul]

I have BA, VP and Nino on ignore because they have consistently failed to engage in discussion, preferring instead to use my threads to lecture their own bullshit (as opposed to conversation). They seem unable to start threads for themselves to do this, and I find it rude.

I already have BA on the list.Whether VP and NS will follow -only time will tell.

 

[butchersapron]

Is this what i get for battering you from pillar to post, pointing out your idiocies, your inaccuracies and your outright lies! Shocking!

(I'd point out that you have signally failed to reply to a single one of the detailed criticims i've made of your postions on this thread or any of the others ones you've posted your refresingly authoriatian pro-murder left-libertarian views on)

I wonder what Gmarthews thinks of Pinochet's murderous coup? Does he feel like you do, supportive?

 

[nino_savatte]

I already have BA on the list.Whether VP and NS will follow -only time will tell.

Say, where have I heard that one before?

 

[Al Kahul]

Say, you sound really familiar...

yes -I'm Gmarthews in disguise >or keyboard jockey or scab or Tory or some Israeli guy or stow on the wold or whomever you wish to accuse me of being.

Read the Above !

GMarthews says he has three of you on ignore . BA I have already put on ignore for being aggressive and lying. So far I have had no run in with you NS and VP hasn't been foul enough yet.

Do you possibly think it could be that I take the advice from someone who has suffered abuse and are rather watchfull.

Given how fast BA became intolerable my guess is pretty fast -but who knows huh ?
you might be OK ?

 

[nino_savatte]

yes -I'm Gmarthews in disguise >or keyboard jockey or scab or Tory or some Israeli guy or stow on the wold or whomever you wish to accuse me of being.

Read the Above !

GMarthews says he has three of you on ignore . BA I have already put on ignore for being aggressive and lying. So far I have had no run in with you NS and VP hasn't been foul enough yet.

Do you possibly think it could be that I take the advice from someone who has suffered abuse and are rather watchfull.

Given how fast BA became intolerable my guess is pretty fast -but who knows huh ?
you might be OK ?

LOL!!! You've got yourself into a right two and eight, haven't you?

Did I say you were Gmarthews or even suggest it? But taking advice from Gmarthews, that's a good one!