LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[Dystopiary]

And considering China, which is the most populous country on earth, religion is basically banned. You have to worship whoever is at the helm of the party, or simply the party itself. So there’s some forced atheism to account for.

BIB - not any more.

 

[Serge Forward]

So yes. Atheists are by far the minority globally, which is unsurprising because at it's extreme, it's a supremely ignorant position.

There are indeed ignorant atheists, but when compared to belief based on superstition, gods and the worship of supernatural beings, then atheism is a fountain of wisdom.

 

[Humberto]

There are indeed ignorant atheists, but when compared to belief based on superstition, gods and the worship of supernatural beings, then atheism is a fountain of wisdom.

Yeah all the best people eh?

 

[Santino]

Here we go

 

[Humberto]

Perhaps. That wasn't my intention in terms of getting involved. But I'm allowed to query?

 

[Serge Forward]

Yeah all the best people eh?

I wouldn't say that. Some of the nicest people I know are religious and there are a few atheists arseholes about.

 

[Santino]

But I'm allowed to query?

Is that a question.

 

[Humberto]

Is that a question.

Well I wasn't sure what you meant. Lighthearted, it's kicking off or prepare to have the leg bored off you by Humberto. Anyway. No drama.

 

[tim]

,

Here we go

Anything that diverts this thread from toxic transphobia is welcome.

 

[xenon]

Personally I am agnostic. I mean I do vehemently believe there is no such God as the ones I was nominally taught about at school. if asked. But I don’t definitely believe there isn’t some creative force. Mainly because I don’t want to waste the intellectual energy on a null hypothesis.. And it doesn’t really affect the day today anyhow.

 

[xenon]

I think there's definitely no god (for most definitions of god) and I'm very interested in religion.

If Spymaster can furnish us with some facts to relieve my ignorance I'd also be very interested in those.

Oh please don’t, lest we should summon Dwyre.

 

[Santino]

Oh please don’t, lest we should summon Dwyre.

Just put him ignore.

 

[xenon]

Just put him ignore.

You remember that thread though I presume? I don’t think I ever read it in entirety.

 

[ouirdeaux]

Atheists are by far the minority globally, which is unsurprising because at it's extreme, it's a supremely ignorant position.

OK, you're probably at least semi-trolling, but its extreme -- by which I'm assuming you mean dogmatically asserting that there is no god -- no more so than any given reigion.

Religions assert that there not only is a god, or gods, and that they want you to behave in a particular way. I can't prove that this isn't the case. But it's obvious that most of them must be wrong, because the things that they believe -- with nothing approaching evidence -- contradict things others believe, equally without evidence.

Just take the Abrahamic religions. Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that he came to earth to die for our sins. Muslims believe he was a a prophet, but not the last or the greatest. Jews, and everyone else for that matter, believe that he was nothing in particular.

They can't all be right. Unless you're going to go down the 'it's all a metaphor' route, which frankly I don't understand. So why don't more believers wonder how it is that their own unevidenced belief system is the right one? Few claim to have some personal revelation. Most stick with the one they were brought up in --- sure, they might have been lucky, but don't they ever wonder whether they weren't? And even those who pick a new belief don't generally have much more to go on than that it seemed for some reason persuasive at the time.

This alleged divinity wants us not to eat pork. Or maybe not. Just cover your heads while worshipping if you're a woman. Or maybe a man. Worship with others on Friday, or is it Saturday or Sunday?

For all we know, if there is indeed a god who created the universe and has certain rules it wants us to follow. we are all supposed to wear green bobble hats on Wednesdays, or face eternal damnation. Which means that everyone is damned, apart from that funny bloke in the corner of the pub you tried to avoid.

 

[Humberto]

They can't all be right, on the bigger or smaller concepts/dogmas and the people that espouse them don't gain (or rather shouldn't) any authority though they might presume it, as might the CCP for example.

 

[smokedout]

,

Anything that diverts this thread from toxic transphobia is welcome.

Not really, it's just the same mostly straight men who turned yet another LGBTQ thread into a transphobic binfire now trashing it again by trolling and squabbling about religion.

 

[Humberto]

Not really, it's just the same mostly straight men who turned yet another LGBTQ thread into a transphobic binfire now trashing it again by trolling and squabbling about religion.

No one's stopping you saying what you want so don't be having a pop at me. I stood up whenever it was unpopular.

 

[Humberto]

Most of you are going into screechy couldn't tolerate it for 7 seconds molten lava land forever, and I'm the one who tried to help you out.

You'll laugh now you won't then or ever again.

What kind of god...

If you think that's bollocks you are a zero fool.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

 

[Spymaster]

OK, you're probably at least semi-trolling, but its extreme -- by which I'm assuming you mean dogmatically asserting that there is no god -- no more so than any given reigion.

Religions assert that there not only is a god, or gods, and that they want you to behave in a particular way. I can't prove that this isn't the case. But it's obvious that most of them must be wrong, because the things that they believe -- with nothing approaching evidence -- contradict things others believe, equally without evidence.

To have the discussion you have to define a bunch of stuff first, as LBJ says. First of all "god". Clearly not all religions worship the same god, some worship many, and some none at all. There are "nontheistic" religions, like branches of Deism and Pantheism. Some atheists will try to claim that nontheistic religions aren't religions, so you'll need to agree a definition of "religion" too. When you've done all that, some atheists will often agree with deists, pandeists, or pantheists, so you also need to define "atheist". Some atheists, for example, often like to claim Einstein as one of theirs, but he was accepting of Spinoza's god, of pantheism.

 

[Santino]

To have the discussion you have to define a bunch of stuff first, as LBJ says. First of all "god". Clearly not all religions worship the same god, some worship many, and some none at all. There are "nontheistic" religions, like branches of Deism and Pantheism. Some atheists will try to claim that nontheistic religions aren't religions, so you'll need to agree a definition of "religion" too.

They're not non-theistic though, are they? They literally believe in the 'theism' part.

 

[Spymaster]

They literally believe in the 'theism' part.

Which part?

Not all theism requires a belief in an anthropomorphic personal god who goes around smiting bad people or doling out virgins to the faithful.

 

[Santino]

Which part?

Not all theism requires a belief in an anthropomorphic personal god who goes around smiting bad people or doling out virgins to the faithful.

So you agree with me, that deism and pantheism are not non-theistic. That doesn't necessarily make them religions, which is perhaps what you meant.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Most of you are going into screechy couldn't tolerate it for 7 seconds molten lava land forever, and I'm the one who tried to help you out.

You'll laugh now you won't then or ever again.

What kind of god...

If you think that's bollocks you are a zero fool.

Are you talking about hell?

 

[Spymaster]

So you agree with me, that deism and pantheism are not non-theistic. That doesn't necessarily make them religions, which is perhaps what you meant.

That depends on how you define god. If your definition is a belief in the kind of god I described in #1702, then I don't agree with you. Whether or not they're religions depends on another definition.

 

[ddraig]

Not really, it's just the same mostly straight men who turned yet another LGBTQ thread into a transphobic binfire now trashing it again by trolling and squabbling about religion.

.

 

[Humberto]

ah fuck this. I'm not being told off by ddraig or anyone for joining in and wotnot. Sick of thse gotchas. I'm off say what you like.

 

[ddraig]

ah fuck this. I'm not being told off by ddraig or anyone for joining in and wotnot. Sick of thse gotchas. I'm off say what you like.

No, just a reminder for the usual suspects who ignore and carry on regardless

 

[Santino]

That depends on how you define god. If your definition is a belief in the kind of god I described in #1702, then I don't agree with you. Whether or not they're religions depends on another definition.

I would say that the definition of god is broader than the beardy sky moralist, and encompasses the god that is the subject of deism and pantheism. What they have in common, ontologically, is positing the existence of a uniquely special entity as the most important fact about the universe.

 

[ouirdeaux]

What they all have in common is that they posit things about the universe that people believe without any evidence. They believe them because they were born to people who told them that these were things to believe, or maybe they heard about them later in life, and thought that they sounded nice. Unless they think they've had some sort of message, and even then you'd think it would enter their heads that they might be delusional, because others have claimed to receive similar messages, but they are radically different in content.

I don't assert that there is no god. What I can say is that I can see no evidence for a god or gods, let alone for the way it or they would like me to behave on earth. It baffles me that so many people can think that their belief system is right, and everyone else's is wrong. By definition, most people have to be wrong, because they believe in a different system, or none. So what are the odds that your particular one is right?