LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[ElizabethofYork]

Sure, but it's the 'evidence' for belief. If you just chuck out the bits you don't like, what's left?

In the beginning

The end.

 

[Spymaster]

True.

Should also be said that there are non-fundamentalist Christians who use the Bible as an excuse for homophobia.

And there are also plenty of atheist homophobes and transphobes.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And fascists that will use religion to further their aims. And of course authoritarian leftists who will persecute any view differing from the true narrative and send folk to gulags.

 

[SpookyFrank]

So people can hold views but not express them on social media in case it offends the nosey; of whatever regime they’re living under, be they secularist, theological, neoliberal, fascist?

Freedom of expression is not freedom from consequences.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Freedom of expression is not freedom from consequences.

And clearly these consequences are life changing towards workers. I always knew loads of anarchists couldn’t really care less about workers, and this pretty much confirms it.

 

[Ax^]

Please.. this actually is not the case anymore. I'm a Christian. And no way would I ever think or say that.

not on about every christian aladdin and its not every not religious person saying kids should not be brought with a faith

confirmed lapsed catholic ( agnostic theist) here so its just part of life even if we stopped going to mass on a sunday

Spy is dealing with extremes and if you look at the states and it view on lgbtq people its all being driving by a christian faith reaction supposedly

would not call them christian myself as no god teaches hate .. same case with this lady kick off about her kids Sex ED

from what i know most parents are given an option to opt out of the classes

 

[SpookyFrank]

And clearly these consequences are life changing towards workers. I always knew loads of anarchists couldn’t really care less about workers, and this pretty much confirms it.

You're a ridiculous fool, be quiet.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You're a ridiculous fool, be quiet.

The voice of authority speaks. You’re comfortable that a female worker got sacked as justifiable ‘consequences’ for expressing privately held beliefs. We aren’t on the same page regarding workers’ rights mate.

 

[brogdale]

for expressing privately held beliefs.

On social media.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The voice of authority speaks. You’re comfortable that a female worker got sacked as justifiable ‘consequences’ for expressing privately held beliefs. We aren’t on the same page regarding workers’ rights mate.

They're not privately held if you post them in public are they?

Workers rights ffs. That's your angle for defending homophobic loons? Really? What about the rights of gay and trans workers not to be rounded up and put in re-education camps, because that's exactly what happens if these fundie cranks get their way.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

They're not privately held if you post them in public are they?

Workers rights ffs. That's your angle for defending homophobic loons? Really? What about the rights of gay and trans workers not to be rounded up and put in re-education camps, because that's exactly what happens if these fundie cranks get their way.

or just not to be bullied at work. I speak from experience!

 

[SpookyFrank]

None of the workers I know can afford a trip to the court of appeal either.

 

[Orang Utan]

Sorry mate but you posted this in response to the story about the Christian woman being fired for voicing concerns over sex education in her son's Christian school:



The inference is very clear.

Only the receiver of information infers.

 

[Orang Utan]

As I said, the inference is very clear in the context of the post you responded to. Fwiw, you're far from alone when it comes to anti-religious, particularly anti-Christian, sentiment on these boards.

You’re admitting you’re inferring information that skyscraper101 has not meant to imply.

 

[Spymaster]

I totally understand why some folk wouldn't want some of the people on this thread teaching their kids sex/gender issues.

I am more convinced as a result of this discussion that it should be optional at parents discretion.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I totally understand why some folk wouldn't want some of the people on this thread teaching their kids sex/gender issues.

I am more convinced as a result of this discussion that it should be optional at parents discretion.

You know there's a curriculum right? And that we don't just make stuff up and then tell kids about it?

You're confusing trained educators with weirdo parents I think. Only the latter reserve the right to fill kids' heads with any old shit they like.

 

[Spymaster]

You know there's a curriculum right? And that we don't just make stuff up and then tell kids about it?

You're confusing trained educators with weirdo parents I think. Only the latter reserve the right to fill kids' heads with any old shit they like.

So I'll ask you what I asked Sweet FA.

What would you say to a kid who asked you if a man could become a woman by declaring it? What does the curriculum say?

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

So I'll ask you what I asked Sweet FA.

What would you say to a kid who asked you if a man could become a woman by declaring it? What does the curriculum say?

Anyone asking this is already so far along the arc of transphobia that they are probably beyond help - or have been prompted by a bigoted adult. I really cannot see a 5 to 7 year old asking anything like this!

 

[InArduisFouette]

You know there's a curriculum right? And that we don't just make stuff up and then tell kids about it?

You're confusing trained educators with weirdo parents I think. Only the latter reserve the right to fill kids' heads with any old shit they like.

what other parts of known and clearly established science do you think crank parents should be able to opt their children of being taught ?

 

[rutabowa]

There's really hardly any trans stuff taught in school; what there is is focused on tolerance. It is all about realising that you don't have to understand or even agree with other peoples' identity/beliefs, but you do have to respect their right to them; whether it is someone being gay, or trans, or a religion, you got to respect it. kids being kids there is still a lot of homophobic/transphobic language used, without them really realising the consequences... just like there used to be racist language commonly used (which is a lot rarer now).

Encouragingly enough most kids seem to actually get this, regardless of their religion or whatever. Life is full of contradictions; you have to be fundamental to believe otherwise.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The point is that this country is committed to religious tolerance. That must include tolerance in education. That means children of Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, and Christian families, should have the same access to faith-based education as other children do to secular schooling.

Your language gives away your motivation with all this "supernatural" sneering. You want to curtail other people's access to religious views that you don't agree with. That's religious intolerance, pure and simple.

Nah. There isn't an equivalence between secular schooling and religious schooling. A secular education can be provided to all kids equally in the same class, whatever their parents' religion and without necessarily contradicting those parents' religious beliefs - except where the beliefs are contrary to, say, the subject matter of a science class.

The French have this bit right. Religion has no place in state-funded schools.

 

[InArduisFouette]

There's really hardly any trans stuff taught in school; what there is is focused on tolerance. It is all about realising that you don't have to understand or even agree with other peoples' identity/beliefs, but you do have to respect their right to them; whether it is someone being gay, or trans, or a religion, you got to respect it. kids being kids there is still a lot of homophobic/transphobic language used, without them really realising the consequences... just like there used to be racist language commonly used (which is a lot rarer now).

Encouragingly enough most kids seem to actually get this, regardless of their religion or whatever. Life is full of contradictions; you have to be fundamental to believe otherwise.

a lotof the media / (former) celebrity driven transphobia is frankly, wank-addled pornsick fantasising from adults who need to address their own sexuality hangups and stop projecting their fears and fantasies onto others...

 

[ElizabethofYork]

would not call them christian myself as no god teaches hate .. same case with this lady kick off about her kids Sex ED

Not sure that's true. The Christian god enjoys a fair bit of smiting and casting down into the fiery pit.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

There's really hardly any trans stuff taught in school; what there is is focused on tolerance. It is all about realising that you don't have to understand or even agree with other peoples' identity/beliefs, but you do have to respect their right to them; whether it is someone being gay, or trans, or a religion, you got to respect it. kids being kids there is still a lot of homophobic/transphobic language used, without them really realising the consequences... just like there used to be racist language commonly used (which is a lot rarer now).

Encouragingly enough most kids seem to actually get this, regardless of their religion or whatever. Life is full of contradictions; you have to be fundamental to believe otherwise.

I've taken part in sessions at schools to increase awareness of trans people. Basically, LGBT+ people stood in front of a class - supervised by teachers - and told their story and then did a Q&A. I only talked to kids aged 11 to 15. Apparently research shows the later kids are introduced to the stuff the less impact it has. Ideally the charity i was involved with try to get to speak to primary school kids, and were able to show a strong measurable difference between schools where LGBT+ sessions were held and schools where they weren't - in terms of bullying. At that time - around 2016/2018 they didn't discuss trans issues with primary kids but were developing something that they hoped to introduce.

any kids that asked about sex were told that the question was inappropriate. The questions were mostly about attitudes of others, experiences at school, marriage, family, etc.

Only a wanker thinks LGBT+ is all about sex and nothing else.

 

[Aladdin]

Classes are compulsory here. But parents have an opt out if they wish.

 

[Orang Utan]

Nah. There isn't an equivalence between secular schooling and religious schooling. A secular education can be provided to all kids equally in the same class, whatever their parents' religion and without necessarily contradicting those parents' religious beliefs - except where the beliefs are contrary to, say, the subject matter of a science class.

The French have this bit right. Religion has no place in state-funded schools.

Religion is ostensibly absent from state schools in America and yet this somehow hasn’t stopped the religious right from harassing educators, maligning them as groomers and banning books from school libraries and curricula. There must be something else at play.

 

[Ax^]

Classes are compulsory here. But parents have an opt out if they wish.

aye same up north with the sister

was the same when i was a kid in the south

same in england no one forced her little christian son to be in a room to listen to it above parental consent

 

[SpookyFrank]

what other parts of known and clearly established science do you think crank parents should be able to opt their children of being taught ?

Well, evolution is only a theory.

And they say dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago, but everyone knows the planet was created last week by a leprechaun named Chuzzlewit, so how could that be?

 

[smokedout]

So I'll ask you what I asked Sweet FA.

What would you say to a kid who asked you if a man could become a woman by declaring it? What does the curriculum say?

You seem to think that primary school children are going to approach this subject with the same zealotry of the average trans obsessed gender critical twitter troll. How many kids are realistically going to ask that? And even if they do there are plenty of nuanced and age appropriate ways to respond. Such as that individuals are the only ones who know how they feel and what usually happens when someone decides to change their gender is they change their clothes, their name, how they look, what words they use to describe themselves like he or she and if they want there are things doctors can do to help them have a body they are more comfortable with. They can even go through a process to legally change their gender if they want to.

It's really not difficult, and only becomes so if you have swallowed gender critical myths about society being inundated by men claiming to be women who do nothing to change their appearance or bodies and just want to get into women's toilets. That's not true though. There is no evidence of this happening on any scale or even happening at all. It's a conspiracy theory. Kid's deserve a better education than that.

 

[InArduisFouette]

<snip valid and important stuff >

Only a wanker thinks LGBT+ is all about sex and nothing else.

and that is the issue with transphobes and homophobes , they seem to be wank-addled pornsick twunts who project their fantasies and fears