The sacked education worker needed to be Muslim rather than Christian for the full liberal dilemma.
LGBT in schools vs religious parents
- Thread starter Anton
- Start date
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Your reframing of what I said to misrepresent my point is very clear.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
It would have no bearing on anything as she wasn't sacked for her religion at all.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Your words are right there, ffs!
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Yes. And at no point do I say:
Go and read it again. Like the actual whole sentence. Anybody with basic comprehension can understand this is just a suggestion if they expect to use the state education system and not expose their kids to this stuff.
Sacked for her views that were linked to her beliefs pretty much is that.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Where does it talk about 'LGBT ideology' in the bible?
Her beliefs are that being a bigoted piece of shit is fine as long as your sleep paralysis demon told you to. That is a false belief. It's not a valid opinion, it's not a cultural practice, it's just someone being an intolerant cunt and then weaponising tolerance in order to get away with it.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
As I said, the inference is very clear in the context of the post you responded to. Fwiw, you're far from alone when it comes to anti-religious, particularly anti-Christian, sentiment on these boards.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
He's implying, you're inferring.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I doubt he'll thank you for that.
How does this differ then from the views of those who adhere to the words of the Quran which is what we were discussing? Do we ban religion? And if so, all beliefs and theories?
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
The Bible is very clear that gay isn't a good thing. I've never really understood how people can claim to believe in the Bible while supporting gay rights. It's like claiming Mein Kampf has some good ideas, and all the antisemitism -- hey, it's just a product of its time, you can ignore that part.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Again, you can be as religious as you like provided you get that whatever you think the precepts of your religion are, they only bind you not everyone else. So you can refuse to be gay because you think Allah wills it, but you get zero fucking say in whther other people are allowed to be gay or not. The alternative is fundamentalism and theocracy, which is bad for everyone regardless of which religion it is.
Only if you think the Bible is a divinely written work that is correct at every point. Historically that's a very niche and extremist view.
So people can hold views but not express them on social media in case it offends the nosey; of whatever regime they’re living under, be they secularist, theological, neoliberal, fascist?
8ball
Merr xmas...
It all comes down to what people want to believe - the “important” bits are the ones that fit their worldview and the “difficult” bits can be explained away by history, culture etc.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Are you aware of what a fundamentalist is, and how uncommon they are in most religions?
And the anarchists like it.
Give over, it's a flippant remark and disingenuous to fixate on it.
The case does not hang on her being a Christian but is based on her having the following beliefs which were found to be protected in this first hearing despite her losing overall.
This happened before the Maya Forstater verdict which found that basically anything short of Nazism could qualify as a protected belief and so her case probably now has a good chance of success.
I think there's a big problem developing here though with how protected beliefs are being used in the various religious and gender critical court cases as a a kind of forced association. A queer friendly venue in Edinburgh was recently legally bullied into hosting a gender critical event they didn't want to hold. Gender Critical group For Woman Scotland are currently threatening to sue the organisers of a trans inclusive feminist festival for not giving them a workshop.
The verdict in the case of Shahrar Ali will be heard next week which will decide whether he was discriminated against by the Green Party for his gender critical views. In the recent Open University case Jo Phoenix was found to have suffered a detriment for amongst other things being called transphobic by some of her collegues. Where are their protected beliefs? Is bigotry, whether perceived or real, now unchallengeable in the workplace?
I think there's a merging of political and philosophical beliefs taking place which is going to lead to a mess. I'm not so comfortable with someone losing their jobs over a facebook post but the Equality Act applies to provision of services and political parties as well. Should it really be the law that someone can't be thrown out of a political party even if they hold (and vocalise) beliefs which go against core principles of the party? Should a Queer community space be forced to hold a homophobic speaker? Could a men's rights activist sue if he wasn't given a job or position in a feminist organisation? Is there any way to hold political events at all if anyone who is not included can threaten to sue if they are denied a platform?
I think the Grainger test needs relooking at and hopefully that will happen if one of these cases lands in a higher court. I also think that venues etc should stand their ground if they can - discriminating against a gender critical person would be legal if it was a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim (ironically the same exemption gender criticals claim is a sex based right).
Unfortunately most community venues or feminist festivals can't afford to raise half a million in (Rowling) crowd funded donations to fight a legal case and have backed down to date but I hope someone takes it up because I don't think this is what the Equality Act was intended to be used for.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Nope, sorry. Sky didn't know that when he posted. Neither did Broggers, as he admitted at the time. That information was posted later in the thread. They posted based on knowing that she was a Christian who moaned about sex education in a church school.
Interesting rest of your post.
8ball
Merr xmas...
This looks to me mostly like the consequences of losing shared core values.
Jennaonthebeach
What would Picard do?
it gets quite Crystal Maze like doesn't it?
Which funnily enough was the last time I was able to watch any of this kind of show on telly.
Which funnily enough was the last time I was able to watch any of this kind of show on telly.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
Sure, but it's the 'evidence' for belief. If you just chuck out the bits you don't like, what's left?
8ball
Merr xmas...
The bits you like.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
See my comment.
There are some Jews and Christians who manage to derive a gay-friendly message from their sacred texts. Fewer Muslims. But it all seems rather irrational.
And -- indubitably -- all quite recent.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Not rocket science, is it?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Very few people who identify as religious, follow their respective scriptures word for word. If some Christians and Jews want to derive gay-friendly stuff from it, good luck to them.
8ball
Merr xmas...
True.
Should also be said that there are non-fundamentalist Christians who use the Bible as an excuse for homophobia.
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