LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[brogdale]

There shouldn't be any fee paying schools. Nevermind more!

A couple of other points. The state has slashed the amount of regulation it imposes upon schools in many ways - look at the Academy stuff. Of course it'll still chuck a few whims down here and there, British Values being a relevant one. But the overall trend is away


As for faith schools, I doubt they're all the same. My daughter goes to one and the only thing of note thus far is she knows a few Jesus stories. When she's older she can decide to reject faith, like me or retain it, like her mum.

But that's her decision to make.

Finally all schools are involved in ideology (Althusser blah blah blah), being secular (either in the British or the French sense) doesn't touch this.

I agree that there shouldn't be fee-paying schools. But, for those of us concerned that public money enables selection based upon parental supernatural beliefs, the only option (other than proscription) is that they be self-funding.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes. That's from management (or private companies), not the State though. By and large.

For example.

The government abolished KS3 attainment levels.

Schools have had to either design their own or buy a system in.

i'm sure some teachers will be along shortly to confirm or take issue with that.

 

[Orang Utan]

Could you expand on this? I don't understand what you mean.

Schools in poor areas have affiliated cadet branches. Cannon fodder recruitment innit.

 

[chilango]

i'm sure some teachers will be along shortly to confirm or take issue with that.

In 15ish years of teaching he vast majority of paperwork has been imposed by management, not by government. I know cos in two of those roles I've been the fucker designing it!

 

[butchersapron]

Schools in poor areas have affiliated cadet branches. Cannon fodder recruitment innit.

They're mostly in private schools aren't they?

However, schools are most commonly associated with the cadet movement through the Combined Cadet Force which is based entirely in schools. There are currently CCFs in 256 schools, of which 196 are independent schools and 60 are in the state sector.

and 32 000 schools.

 

[chilango]

CCFs are for recruiting the Ruperts of the future afaics.

 

[Spymaster]

It gives the impression they're proper schools.



Lots of secular, non-religious bodies administer exams. Religiously affiliated bodies should only be able to administer exams testing knowledge of whatever religion they're affiliated to. Not because people can't know stuff outside of their faith, but because it would take some prestige away from a ''religious'' education, and make sure kids had to attend somewhere secular in order to gain qualifications. It's about de-normalising the ''religious school'' experience and making it less appealing to more parents.

Frankly, where we are is a mess so any solution is bound to be messy too.

This is just utterly intolerant garbage.

 

[8ball]

They're mostly in private schools aren't they?

I think if you’re near a military base you’re likely to have affiliations in working class areas. That’s how it was
in South Wales when I was growing up, anyhoo..

 

[brogdale]

I think if you’re near a military base you’re likely to have affiliations in working class areas. That’s how it was
in South Wales when I was growing up, anyhoo..

When I were a lad, the Public Schools/Grammars had on-site CCFs (or whatever it was called) and the 'ordinary' youth had the town Cadets (unaffiliated to any particular school).

 

[Orang Utan]

They have them in poor schools too. Private for the officers, state for the infantry, i guess

 

[butchersapron]

Still, 60 state school CCF's from 30 000 schools doesn't really suggest massive militarisation to me.

 

[brogdale]

Still, 60 state school CCF's from 30 000 schools doesn't really suggest massive militarisation to me.

They’ll be mostly from the remaining 164 Grammars, I’d imagine.

 

[Spymaster]

They have them in poor schools too. Private for the officers, state for the infantry, i guess

Where do the infantry officers go?

 

[8ball]

When I were a lad, the Public Schools/Grammars had on-site CCFs (or whatever it was called) and the 'ordinary' youth had the town Cadets (unaffiliated to any particular school).

With us it seemed to split roughly into Army cadets from the comp and Sea cadets from the Grammar school.
Possibly just due to where the schools were situated, but I think the cost of kit differed too.

 

[8ball]

Where do the infantry officers go?

Infant school.

 

[brogdale]

Infant school.

Boom-tish thread ender?

 

[DotCommunist]

Where do the infantry officers go?

sandhurst of course.

Got elvis costello stuck in my head now

 

[Pickman's model]

sandhurst of course.

Got elvis costello stuck in my head now

this'll cure it

Spoiler

 

[gentlegreen]

 

[Pickman's model]

Spoiler

 

[Pickman's model]

sandhurst of course.

Got elvis costello stuck in my head now

how're you doing now, dc?

 

[Spymaster]

how're you doing now, dc?

He’s a colonel.

 

[Pickman's model]

He’s a colonel.

i meant whether he still had elvis costello in his head

 

[Pickman's model]

if agadoo hasn't worked, this should do the trick

Spoiler

 

[Idris2002]

He’s a colonel.

And about to be executed by the MPLA.

 

[Anton]

some observations:
there are some Dawkinite type views on religion, spaghetti monster etc. look at them they are stupid, hahaha!

this approach wont work in convincing people and when it is applied to another minority ethnic group, it can often come across or is likely to be accused of racism and xenophobia. even if in many cases it is not that ie I don't think Dawkins is a racist, he hates religion as such, but when he criticises Muslims, it comes across as racism, 1st world privileged white intellectual from Oxbridge laughing at these stupid poor black and brown people who believe in God.

religion provides many things that secular society doesn't, and many people need these things, ie a community

I actually do think Peter Tatchell should be commended for at least trying to address some of the issues, and for actually appearing on platforms with Islamists and debating them.

if only open debate were really possible.

 

[Pickman's model]

some observations:
there are some Dawkinite type views on religion, spaghetti monster etc. look at them they are stupid, hahaha!

this approach wont work in convincing people and when it is applied to another minority ethnic group, it can often come across or is likely to be accused of racism and xenophobia. even if in many cases it is not that ie I don't think Dawkins is a racist, he hates religion as such, but when he criticises Muslims, it comes across as racism, 1st world privileged white intellectual from Oxbridge laughing at these stupid poor black and brown people who believe in God.

religion provides many things that secular society doesn't, and many people need these things, ie a community

also a lot of secular culture is now, frankly, borderline pornography. pop culture, ariane grande, kardashians, etc.

I'm not a Muslim but I don't like this either, and I can't say I really blame Muslims and others for rejecting 'western' culture and 'British values', if not explicitly, at least implicitly. western culture has become trash.

perhaps there's a problem not with the Muslim parents, but rather with western culture and British values.
I don't think LGBT will ever be accepted by religious people. coercion and propaganda wont help. rather it will alienate people from the society and the state.

tl;dr? nothing to see here

 

[brogdale]

Talking of 'earworms'...

tl;dr? nothing to see here

Only just managed to avoid using the phrase cultural Marxism

 

[zahir]

there are some Dawkinite type views on religion, spaghetti monster etc. look at them they are stupid, hahaha!

this approach wont work in convincing people and when it is applied to another minority ethnic group, it can often come across or is likely to be accused of racism and xenophobia. even if in many cases it is not that ie I don't think Dawkins is a racist, he hates religion as such, but when he criticises Muslims, it comes across as racism, 1st world privileged white intellectual from Oxbridge laughing at these stupid poor black and brown people who believe in God.

Whatever the problems with Dawkins he does seem popular with many atheists and people struggling with their faith in Muslim majority countries. This report suggests that Dawkins’ The God Delusion has been read more often in Arabic than in English.

Arabic Translation of “The God Delusion” Downloaded 10 Million Times

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Whatever the problems with Dawkins he does seem popular with many atheists and people struggling with their faith in Muslim majority countries. This report suggests that Dawkins’ The God Delusion has been read more often in Arabic than in English.

Arabic Translation of “The God Delusion” Downloaded 10 Million Times

Tbh I'd make almost the opposite point to the one Anton makes. There is a big danger of racism or looking down on another ethnic group if you assume you cannot or should not pursue certain lines of argument with certain people.