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I sometimes idly wonder how the higher-ups regard this class conflict through the lens of the Maoist thought etc that they're expected to know. I know people can hold all sorts of contradictory thoughts in their heads but I wonder if they ever discuss it among themselves or are just too busy counting their money.
 
I sometimes idly wonder how the higher-ups regard this class conflict through the lens of the Maoist thought etc that they're expected to know. I know people can hold all sorts of contradictory thoughts in their heads but I wonder if they ever discuss it among themselves or are just too busy counting their money.

They don't discuss it or care about it.

I managed to get a hold of the political syllabus for universities in China to understood how this is taught, there were 3 main textbooks - one was a summary of Marx and Lenin, one was Chinese Marxism from Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Three Represents, Scientific Outlook on Development and presumably Xi Jinping "thought" (the most vacuous of all of those) takes centre stage these days. The third was about moral development and not really overtly political, however seemed quite Confucian.

The Marx/Lenin one is almost unreadable and essentially repeats the same things over and over again. It doesn't attempt to demonstrate the validity of Marxist theory with any real world examples, and class struggle is relegated to a fairly minor position. It seems to rely heavily on Dialectical Materialism, which fits in nicely with the economism of the time (this was from a few years ago). "Economic base determines superstructure" is the most commonly heard use of Marxism in Chinese universities. I've also heard it used as defense of policy in Xinjiang, essentially saying that economic growth is the most important. (I wonder if this has changed now that Xi seems to be emphasising international conflict and struggle over economic development).

For the other stuff, only Mao Zedong Thought relates to class struggle but it tends to be taught in terms of the struggle against imperialism. I.e. the capitalist and landlord class had become tied to imperialism so the peasants had to be the revolutionary force. This isn't given much more weight than the theories of the leaders since Mao who don't mention class struggle at all really.

Socialism has been redefined to essentially mean "rule of the Communist Party" and people don't really see any contradiction between socialism and China's vast inequality. I've even heard people think that welfare state is a characteristic of decadent western capitalism as opposed to the self reliant and hard working Chinese socialism.
 
They don't discuss it or care about it.

I managed to get a hold of the political syllabus for universities in China to understood how this is taught, there were 3 main textbooks - one was a summary of Marx and Lenin, one was Chinese Marxism from Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Three Represents, Scientific Outlook on Development and presumably Xi Jinping "thought" (the most vacuous of all of those) takes centre stage these days. The third was about moral development and not really overtly political, however seemed quite Confucian.

The Marx/Lenin one is almost unreadable and essentially repeats the same things over and over again. It doesn't attempt to demonstrate the validity of Marxist theory with any real world examples, and class struggle is relegated to a fairly minor position. It seems to rely heavily on Dialectical Materialism, which fits in nicely with the economism of the time (this was from a few years ago). "Economic base determines superstructure" is the most commonly heard use of Marxism in Chinese universities. I've also heard it used as defense of policy in Xinjiang, essentially saying that economic growth is the most important. (I wonder if this has changed now that Xi seems to be emphasising international conflict and struggle over economic development).

For the other stuff, only Mao Zedong Thought relates to class struggle but it tends to be taught in terms of the struggle against imperialism. I.e. the capitalist and landlord class had become tied to imperialism so the peasants had to be the revolutionary force. This isn't given much more weight than the theories of the leaders since Mao who don't mention class struggle at all really.
Out of curiosity are marx's and lenin's works freely available? Tho imagine the books you mention are intended to put anyone off investigating what they actually said
 
Out of curiosity are marx's and lenin's works freely available? Tho imagine the books you mention are intended to put anyone off investigating what they actually said

Yeah they are, I haven't checked myself but apparently some of Marx's stuff is censored - about alienation and oriental despotism.

But indeed, very few people bother and are put off by the tedium of the assigned texts.
 
It's also worth mentioning that even Mao is unlikely to have actually read Marx firsthand. Stalin's "History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" was much more influential in the early Chinese Communist Party.

If you read Mao, you can sense it, it doesn't really feel heavily influenced by a Marxist theoretical framework.
 
They don't discuss it or care about it.

I managed to get a hold of the political syllabus for universities in China to understood how this is taught, there were 3 main textbooks - one was a summary of Marx and Lenin, one was Chinese Marxism from Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Three Represents, Scientific Outlook on Development and presumably Xi Jinping "thought" (the most vacuous of all of those) takes centre stage these days. The third was about moral development and not really overtly political, however seemed quite Confucian.

The Marx/Lenin one is almost unreadable and essentially repeats the same things over and over again. It doesn't attempt to demonstrate the validity of Marxist theory with any real world examples, and class struggle is relegated to a fairly minor position. It seems to rely heavily on Dialectical Materialism, which fits in nicely with the economism of the time (this was from a few years ago). "Economic base determines superstructure" is the most commonly heard use of Marxism in Chinese universities. I've also heard it used as defense of policy in Xinjiang, essentially saying that economic growth is the most important. (I wonder if this has changed now that Xi seems to be emphasising international conflict and struggle over economic development).

For the other stuff, only Mao Zedong Thought relates to class struggle but it tends to be taught in terms of the struggle against imperialism. I.e. the capitalist and landlord class had become tied to imperialism so the peasants had to be the revolutionary force. This isn't given much more weight than the theories of the leaders since Mao who don't mention class struggle at all really.

Socialism has been redefined to essentially mean "rule of the Communist Party" and people don't really see any contradiction between socialism and China's vast inequality. I've even heard people think that welfare state is a characteristic of decadent western capitalism as opposed to the self reliant and hard working Chinese socialism.
Interesting, thanks, so they teach really lightweight versions of theory and also select the things they want to focus on. Makes sense I guess. I'm not someone who think everyone should read loads of Marx and Lenin* btw, just intrigued by contradictions at play with a 'Communist' Party in power.


*A certain type of Western leftist is obsessed with Leninism 'because it worked', but Lenin would never have succeeded in Russia without the very particular circumstance of a large and dissatisfied conscript army during a major war, which proved to be fertile recruiting ground for Bolshevism even though the soldiers were largely not even 'workers' in the capitalist sense. Without that historical contingency it seems highly doubtful that Bolshevism could have succeeded. So it's really weird to me that the fanboys obsess about Bolshevism being so successful when they've no hope of such a conscript army to provide their main base and armed wing. But I digress.
 
*A certain type of Western leftist is obsessed with Leninism 'because it worked', but Lenin would never have succeeded in Russia without the very particular circumstance of a large and dissatisfied conscript army during a major war, which proved to be fertile recruiting ground for Bolshevism even though the soldiers were largely not even 'workers' in the capitalist sense. Without that historical contingency it seems highly doubtful that Bolshevism could have succeeded. So it's really weird to me that the fanboys obsess about Bolshevism being so successful when they've no hope of such a conscript army to provide their main base and armed wing. But I digress.
lenin would never have succeeded without the great assistance he was given by the german high command and all that german gold
 
Tangent:

I'm currently posting from a server in China.
There are loads of blocked things - BBC news, Tiktok, the results of just about any Google search, all of the Twitter links on the threads...

But Urban comes through fine.
 
Tangent:

I'm currently posting from a server in China.
There are loads of blocked things - BBC news, Tiktok, the results of just about any Google search, all of the Twitter links on the threads...

But Urban comes through fine.

Huh, I didn't know TikTok was blocked in China. Ironic considering its owners are ByteDance, a Chinese company.

Maybe TikTok really is a Chinese psy-op? 🤔
 
Huh, I didn't know TikTok was blocked in China. Ironic considering its owners are ByteDance, a Chinese company.

Maybe TikTok really is a Chinese psy-op? 🤔

It's because the censorship regime in TikTok is not as rigid as with DouYin, the Chinese equivalent. They also want to restrict unregulated communication with other countries as much as possible.
 
Yep I don't think they've bothered blocking it considering the native Chinese user base is pretty much zero.

Makes sense, but with the internet being so massive I wouldn’t have been surprised by large domain-level blockings, some of them likely counter-productive.
 
Tangent:

I'm currently posting from a server in China.
There are loads of blocked things - BBC news, Tiktok, the results of just about any Google search, all of the Twitter links on the threads...

But Urban comes through fine.
What about archive.ph?
 
I saw a bit of a video of the said fire complete with sound effects on twitter and really wish I hadn't watched it
 
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