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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
There is no easy answer to how Labour becomes electable.
I think Corbyn could start by apologising to the Jewish community who feel betrayed by Labour on the issue of anti-semitism and by making the party's stance clear on Brexit. Namely, whether they support Brexit or want to reverse it. Corbyn's ambiguity on the issue has served him fairly well to date but he needs to take a clear stance either way.
The problem he has is how to unite the Brexit voting, working class traditional Labour voters in the North (many of whom who turned UKIP and Tory) with the pro-EU liberals in metropolitan, urban areas (many of whom are Labour members). All these voters have voted Labour in the past but for very different reasons.
I am no cheerleader of the Blairite, moderate wing of the party. Blair should never be forgotten for his decision to go to Iraq, for alienating millions of working class voters to never vote Labour again and making Labour a party far too comfortable with the grotesque levels of wealth in the city and finance. He took the party too far away from its roots.
So there isn't an obvious solution, but Blair did win Labour three elections, something no Labour leader has ever managed before, and Corbyn and the party's task is to work out how to do that again. Like him or hate him, Blair managed to unite a huge chunk of the electorate to vote Labour including Tory voters.
By simply preaching to the classic 20th century left policies such as nationalisation and wealth and income redistribution, he isn't necessarily providing the answers to people's needs in our 21st century digital economy. People don't want capitalism overthrown (John McDonnel's words) but rather reformed to make it work better for the ordinary man. People won't vote for a party that isn't seen as being on the side of those in work or of British interests in defence and overseas.
What I do like from Corbyn's legacy is the rise of a grassroots movement and Momentum, making it the largest party in Western Europe. I'd like to see more of this politics, with policy formed from grassroots upwards rather than from the parliamentary party. Corbyn has started some of the process of Labour modernisation and maybe it will take another leader to finish that process.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's in the national interest to have our politicians - mps, meps, lords, councillors - in grytviken. but as so often political leaders put party before country
To be fair to Blair, he invested massive amounts into hospitals, schools and public services. He made sure there was a fair and generous welfare system and child poverty was reduced significantly.
The Tories are the one who have destroyed public institutions with their austerity which has decimated the NHS, schools and public services, the very services Labour invested heavily in.
Austerity was and is an ideological attempt to create a small state. Child poverty, homelessness and foodbank use have all shot up under this government and it's cruel welfare policies such as the Bedroom Tax and Universal Credit.
So his victories were not useless as Blair understood that in order to create a fairer, more equal society, you have to be a party of government and not just speak to yourselves but to the whole country. The minimum wage, welfare state and NHS were all created while Labour were in government. It's easy for Labour to slide into their comfort zone and oppose for opposition's sake but until they actually find an alternative message and coherent policies, they'll struggle to get back into government. The Tories are useless but the opposition aren't much better.
He did most of this by PFI, which has opened the door to privatisation. Whoop!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think you'll find blair was very happy to increase child poverty and to destroy hospitals, schools and public services. and you show no signs of caring much for what he did to e.g. iraq.
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Jeremiah18.17
Well-Known Member
And there, as they say, is the rub. The “fairer, more equal society” the Blairites envisaged was a fantasy of a particular era, where European social democracy still had a little intellectual credibility, though fading, and people could still mouth meritocratic platitudes without immediately sounding ridiculous. It funded itself through sponging off corrupt, pre 2008 finance capitalism, the masters of which went along so long as the Blairites didn’t rock the boat upon which both were dependent.
“Speaking to the whole country” only works when the majority are bought into the meritocratic and progressive myths. For the majority, almost regardless of income, these myths are now blown sky high by years of neoliberalism and globalisation.
The divide is now between those who reject neoliberalism and globalisation in favour of nationalism and authoritarianism and those who reject neoliberalism and globalisation in favour of various versions of socialism and internationalism. The latter, though preferable, are still less coherent than the former.
Very few, right or left have even yet acknowledged the changes that are coming, brought by the end of the fossil fuel economy, climate change, forced mass migration and the imminent crisis of the debt based model of economies that was chosen in the late 1970s as the only way to save capitalism in the West; let alone the implications of widespread rogue gangster-crony capitalist regimes arming to the teeth and the revolutionised mental and political environment brought about by a digitised society and economy.
Humour Dumpty - liberal democracy/social democracy/ business as usual is in pieces and nobody has a clue what to do.
We are in the time of monsters, the old world dying, the new unable to be born (yet). The answers do not lie in establishment politics.
Appreciate that some of this investment come through PFI's. I am critical of them and hospital trusts, for instance, are still repaying that debt today. That said, there was still investment in these things, not cuts like there have been under the Tories.
Privatisation of the NHS and various academy chains, free schools etc... have all increased under the Tories.
And as noble as calling for an alternative to establishment politics is, anarchy is never realistically going to happen even if a lot of people on this forum wish for it.
The best thing we can do is to reform the system. We live in a society and economy where globalisation and neoliberalism is the order and we're not going to turn into a communist state overnight or a stateless society. People want change but they don't want that.
As for Iraq, I was totally opposed to the invasion and still am. The Tories, however, voted for it also.
but none of it would have been possible without the sterling groundwork laid by the Blair government. By ceding that ground, they made it possible for Cameron to push through reforms even Thatcher balked at.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i note you decline to object to the sanctions levied on iraq under blair, or operation desert fox, the bombing of iraq in 1998. the sanctions, as you doubtless recall, were widely held responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of iraqi children.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
OK so where is Corbyn in all of this, seeing as he was the initial subject of your thread? He's not the 'communist state or stateless society' bit is he?
How are you left-wing, exactly? I ask in good faith. How are you defining the term?
You're a liberal democrat. And possibly with upper case given a few more years.
Jeremiah18.17
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is that the crisis in mainstream politics is the manifestation of a now multifaceted and overlapping crisis - a crisis which is economic, technological, ecological, moral and spiritual if we dare to use these terms. The times ask of us who we are, what are we here for, what does it mean to be human, and what is the value of human lives?
Mainstream politics gives us no answers - it refers to bread and butter issues, ignoring the fact that continuation of our current trajectory will lead to no butter and precious little bread for the majority of the global population within a generation. Even in the short term, bread and butter issues are safest dealt with by self organisation at the base rather than putting trust in increasingly powerless and redundant politicians.
There is no going back to a “golden age” whether that is the late 1990s of the Blairites or the 1950s of the Brexiteers.
Mainstream politics gives us no answers - it refers to bread and butter issues, ignoring the fact that continuation of our current trajectory will lead to no butter and precious little bread for the majority of the global population within a generation. Even in the short term, bread and butter issues are safest dealt with by self organisation at the base rather than putting trust in increasingly powerless and redundant politicians.
There is no going back to a “golden age” whether that is the late 1990s of the Blairites or the 1950s of the Brexiteers.
I see myself as a social democrat and liberal. I believe in reforming the capitalist society we live in to make it fairer and more equal. I'm pro-EU, support immigration, electoral reform, environment policies and equal rights for women, gay couples etc... and a properly funded NHS, welfare system, schools and other public services.
I'd probably vote Lib Dem or Green if I felt it would make a difference under the FPTP system but it doesn't. So I opt for Labour especially as where I live is a safe Labour seat. Anything but Tory.
I'd call that centre-left at least which doesn't seem to fit in on here.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
You'll probably get a bit of a hard time initially at least, to be totally honest. That is kind of how it goes here.
I appreciate that you're at least arguing your corner in good faith though and hopefully everyone will keep it somewhat polite. Stick around.
Thanks for the kind words.You'll probably get a bit of a hard time initially at least, to be totally honest. That is kind of how it goes here.
I appreciate that you're at least arguing your corner in good faith though and hopefully everyone will keep it somewhat polite. Stick around.
I'll do my best to stick around.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
A poll that's worth nothing.
yougov are always going to have a tory bias, cos they are tories. Plus its a paid to fill in poll so inaccurate as has no incentive for truth.
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