Knife crime: Fatal stabbings at highest level since records began in 1946

[Sue]

Certainly upset David Lammy.

From that article:

'The Home Office is using taxpayers’ money to sponsor an age-old trope,” he told the Guardian. “Boris Johnson has already called black people ‘piccaninnies with watermelon smiles’. Now his government is pushing the stereotype that black people love fried chicken. This ridiculous stunt is either explicitly racist or, at best, unfathomably stupid.'

So I think this is a rubbish idea but I'm struggling to see how it's racist. Loads of fried chicken shops where I live (Hackney) and seems to me that youngsters of all colours love fried chicken rather than it being a predominantly black thing. (And is Lammy saying that anti-knife stuff is or should be aimed at black kids only?)

 

[Pickman's model]

From that article:

'The Home Office is using taxpayers’ money to sponsor an age-old trope,” he told the Guardian. “Boris Johnson has already called black people ‘piccaninnies with watermelon smiles’. Now his government is pushing the stereotype that black people love fried chicken. This ridiculous stunt is either explicitly racist or, at best, unfathomably stupid.'

So I think this is a rubbish idea but I'm struggling to see how it's racist. Loads of fried chicken shops where I live (Hackney) and seems to me that youngsters of all colours love fried chicken rather than it being a predominantly black thing. (And is Lammy saying that anti-knife stuff is or should be aimed at black kids only?)

frother's gotta froth

 

[GarveyLives]

​

 

[MrSki]

​

Akala speaks a lot of sense there. Well worth the watch.

 

[Cid]

From that article:

'The Home Office is using taxpayers’ money to sponsor an age-old trope,” he told the Guardian. “Boris Johnson has already called black people ‘piccaninnies with watermelon smiles’. Now his government is pushing the stereotype that black people love fried chicken. This ridiculous stunt is either explicitly racist or, at best, unfathomably stupid.'

So I think this is a rubbish idea but I'm struggling to see how it's racist. Loads of fried chicken shops where I live (Hackney) and seems to me that youngsters of all colours love fried chicken rather than it being a predominantly black thing. (And is Lammy saying that anti-knife stuff is or should be aimed at black kids only?)

Because it’s a decades old, still prevalent, racist trope. It doesn’t really take any more than that...

 

[Funky_monks]

​

Piers Morgan is almost semi-reasonable in that clip.

I think I need a sit down.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Because it’s a decades old, still prevalent, racist trope. It doesn’t really take any more than that...

It's also brilliantly representative of the toxic mix of barely submerged racism, clunking gesture politics, queasy liberalism and the clueless response of a political class that doesn't even understand the factors driving knife crime let alone the solutions.

 

[Cid]

Piers Morgan is almost semi-reasonable in that clip.

I think I need a sit down.

Shift in mode of debate I think... a lot of talking heads in the centrist spectrum will now approach interviews with a kind of woke gesture politics, but will keep returning to the point they're really trying to make. Morgan keeps coming back to 'but why are young black boys...?' 'what would you say to young black boys?' etc, despite the fact that Akala has just given him some very good arguments about why that isn't relevant in general, and why in that very specific case it isn't that helpful to make these generalisations. Akala does a really good job of staying on track with his arguments...

 

[Funky_monks]

Shift in mode of debate I think... a lot of talking heads in the centrist spectrum will now approach interviews with a kind of woke gesture politics, but will keep returning to the point they're really trying to make. Morgan keeps coming back to 'but why are young black boys...?' 'what would you say to young black boys?' etc, despite the fact that Akala has just given him some very good arguments about why that isn't relevant in general, and why in that very specific case it isn't that helpful to make these generalisations. Akala does a really good job of staying on track with his arguments...

This is why I said almost semi-reasonable as opposed to actually approaching being any level of reasonable.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is why I said almost semi-reasonable as opposed to actually approaching being any level of reasonable.

semi-reasonable is approaching a level of reasonable, as it has got (by definition) halfway there

 

[Funky_monks]

semi-reasonable is approaching a level of reasonable, as it has got (by definition) halfway there

Almost semi-reasonable, thankyou.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Quite so, when hatboy stopped being a mod

He was addicted to the ban-hammer, and censored posts. He was a cunt.

 

[Pickman's model]

Almost semi-reasonable, thankyou.

yeh it's moved quite some way from unreasonable to reasonable then, call it 40% of the way there

 

[Anju]

HuffPost is now part of Oath

Not sure why link shows as this. Story is about stabbing outside the home office.

If only the chicken boxes were out there already.

 

[Sue]

Because it’s a decades old, still prevalent, racist trope. It doesn’t really take any more than that...

I've never heard of this before.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've never heard of this before.

yeh it's a new one to me too

 

[Treacle Toes]

Piers Morgan is almost semi-reasonable in that clip.

I think I need a sit down.

He knew he couldn't take Akala on with his normal nonsense. He didn't dare.

 

[Treacle Toes]

frother's gotta froth

Only he isn't frothing is he. He is speaking from a position of knowledge.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Because it’s a decades old, still prevalent, racist trope. It doesn’t really take any more than that...

Yep, nothing new.

Fried chicken - Wikipedia

Anti-Black Imagery - Jim Crow Museum - Ferris State University

 

[Sue]

Yep, nothing new.

Fried chicken - Wikipedia

From that, seems more of an American thing?

 

[Pickman's model]

Only he isn't frothing is he. He is speaking from a position of knowledge.

When I say frothing I mean tweeting is the extent of his action on the subject, nothing will result. He is frothing

 

[Treacle Toes]

From that, seems more of an American thing?

So stereotypes never travel?

 

[Cid]

From that, seems more of an American thing?

Originally yeah... From the American south... Back to at least birth of a nation (very important, very racist KKK film from 1915, about civil war and reconstruction). But as with many racist tropes it has migrated, and had a long time to do so. I've no idea how it impacts on the lived experience of black people in the UK, due to not being one. But it is certainly an identifiable racist trope, and anyone involved in politics should be aware of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Originally yeah... From the American south... Back to at least birth of a nation (very important, very racist KKK film from 1915, about civil war and reconstruction). But as with many racist tropes it has migrated, and had a long time to do so. I've no idea how it impacts on the lived experience of black people in the UK, due to not being one. But it is certainly an identifiable racist trope, and anyone involved in politics should be aware of it.

People often forget boan received an endorsement from Woodrow Wilson

 

[Cid]

People often forget boan received an endorsement from Woodrow Wilson

First film to be screened in the White House...

Wilson was an utter shit.

 

[Pickman's model]

So stereotypes never travel?

The wiki section starts "in the United States" and mentions nothing about the UK, in addition to which the use of fried chicken as a racial stereotype isn't something I or Sue have encountered, so I'd suggest it hasn't travelled that well. I think it'd woosh past most people here. That being said I'll keep my eye out for it in the future

 

[Proper Tidy]

Black people liking fried chicken had travelled well enough that it was used in my school in 90s as one of means to abuse the 3 black kids in 1200 pupils tbf

 

[Proper Tidy]

Think there is also a modern and UK specific twist on it, which is that poor 'urban' (mostly black) kids are often found in cheap chicken shops

 

[Sue]

So stereotypes never travel?

I'm not saying that. Just that if it's more of an American thing, people in the UK are likely less familiar with it or, like me, completely unaware of it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Think there is also a modern and UK specific twist on it, which is that poor 'urban' (mostly black) kids are often found in cheap chicken shops

Chicken and chips is the cheapest fast food around. Cheaper than MC Donalds and the like. It's cheaper than school canteens even. It's a big part of youth culture imo...and yes in some areas you will see mainly Black kids in the shops at lunch time or after school because that reflects the local demographics.