Keith Moon Exposed As Crap Shocker

[phildwyer]

Oh please, please phil - define 'White sounding' drums.

Neal Peart.

 

[past caring]

Regrettable epıthets asıde, ıt ıs absolutely true that Moon ıs an extremely whıte-soundıng drummer.

In other shocking news, it has also been revealed that Sly Dunbar's drumming sounds black.

You fucking twonk.

 

[phildwyer]

In other shocking news, it has also been revealed that Sly Dunbar's drumming sounds black.

Bullshıt. How does he "sound black?"

You have no ıdea what you re on about do you?

 

[past caring]

You're fucking quality, phil - keep it up.

 

[Pickman's model]

i wonder what this talk of black and white sounding musicians would indicate about the quality of phil lynott's bass playing.

 

[past caring]

Bullshıt. How does he "sound black?"

You have no ıdea what you re on about do you?

 

[spawnofsatan]

The Jimi Hendrix experience, black sound or white sound?

 

[phildwyer]

The Jimi Hendrix experience, black sound or white sound?

Whıte.

Sly and the Famıly Stone?

 

[spawnofsatan]

Whıte.

Sly and the Famıly Stone?

Brown sound

 

[phildwyer]

There ıs of course a school of thought that holds Rock musıc to be whıte by defınıtıon, sınce ıt essentıally consısts of the whıte approprıatıon of Afro-Amerıcan culture.

Perhaps that ıs a matter best left to another thread however.

 

[Idris2002]

There ıs of course a school of thought that holds Rock musıc to be whıte by defınıtıon, sınce ıt essentıally consısts of the whıte approprıatıon of Afro-Amerıcan culture.

Perhaps that ıs a matter best left to another thread however.

By all means leave it to another thread . . . but it's true alright.

 

[past caring]

No it's not.

 

[rutabowa]

Tommy Ramone is obviosuly the best rock drummer as he can do those fast high hats.

 

[Idris2002]

Yes it is.

 

[rutabowa]

Yes it is.

you mean yes "he" is.

 

[Kaka Tim]

i think what phil is trying to say is that Moon didn't play funky/jazzy/groove type drums. Which he didn't. He played aggresive, wild, driving drums. Perfect for the Who. Rubbish for James Brown or Parliament.
So far so uncontroversial.
That however, does not make him a shit drummer. It makes him a drummer for a style of music that Phil does not care for. Not the same at all.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There ıs of course a school of thought that holds Rock musıc to be whıte by defınıtıon, sınce ıt essentıally consısts of the whıte approprıatıon of Afro-Amerıcan culture.

Perhaps that ıs a matter best left to another thread however.

You could also say it was middle class appropriation of working class culture. You could say that, but you'd be missing the point by just as great a margin.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Oh please, please phil - define 'White sounding' drums.

Neal Peart.

He said 'white' not 'shite'

 

[past caring]

They were white, really.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Pure Memphis Soul rhythm business:

 

[editor]

There ıs of course a school of thought that holds Rock musıc to be whıte by defınıtıon, sınce ıt essentıally consısts of the whıte approprıatıon of Afro-Amerıcan culture.

Perhaps that ıs a matter best left to another thread however.

Yes. I simply can't get over how similar classic rock albums like Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon and Tommy are to "Afro-Amerıcan culture."

into infinity.

 

[southside]

Hello all.

While Phil's title for this thread was perhaps ill advised, the two examples he posted are shockingly bad. The drum solo is absolutely diabolical - and Editor you did imply that the poor recording made it seem worse than it is... it's just a shit performance, it's out of time and there aren't really any patterns in it, it's mostly just random bollocks.

SpookyFranks' youtube link does show what I'd consider good drumming though! I'm not really that familiar with the Who and at first didn't realise it was Keith Moon - I thought he was trying to compound Phil's argument rather than contradict it. I was surprised it was the same drummer!

So I'd be inclined to agree with Kaka Tim - that drugs and booze really did affect his ability in his later years.

beesonthewhatnow - while you're kind of right that it doesn't matter what individual parts sound like in isolation, this isn'y really true of drums with the exception of the actual balance and tones the the track. As drums are the foundation, and not an accompanying instrument, it really helps if the placement is precise within the patterns - I'm not saying it can't speed up and slow down throughout the song, or that the drummer can't drag the snare, or push the kicks to enhance the feel - that's 'pocket' after all - but that youtube vid phil linked in the first post shows Moon's timing of hits to be very sloppy - lazy kicks, early kicks - it's totally inconsistent and I know it would be much better if it was less sloppy.

I'd like to add that I'm not into soulless over produced and polished perfrmances and recordings, and I do know a bit about the process as I have produced 3 records that have gone gold, and toured extensively as a (quite shit) drummer! I'm not going to embarrass the people I've worked for by linking them to a shitty debate about Keith Moon in a forum online, and franky I couldn't give a shit if people don't believe me. I have also analysed and collected drum tracks and breaks since the mid nineties so would like to think I know a little bit about it.

I would like to point out I am in no way affiliated with Phil! I just thought it was a bit off about 50 people ganging up on one person, when his initial post actually ended with a question asking if others agreed. The way everyone has reacted like ' you can't take moons name in vain!! sacrilege!! ' just because they're Who fans. It's pathetic!!

Some of the arguments and posts 'against' what Phil said are so ill informed that it's laughable - if you don't know which ones then they are most likely yours. MASS DICKHEADNESS

MOON WAS OVERRATED

HE WAS A SHOW-OFF DRUMMER

THAT DRUM SOLO WITH THE GOLDFISH IN THE TOM IS COMPLETELY LACKING IN SOUL AND FEELING YOU WHITE PIGS

sure he was a 'pioneer' of two bass drums, but I bet he did that mostly because of the way it looks anyways...

shame on all of you that just piled in with your ignorant views on Phil when he was already outnumbered - it's basically bullying.

Sx

Hello dude,

Something I've learned a long time ago is when you talk utter bollox on urban you get called on it, Moon is a legend his ability on the kit is legendary the man was a monster. Moon and Entwhistle as a rythmn section are IMO probably only surpassed by Bonzo and JPJones.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tommy Ramone is obviosuly the best rock drummer as he can do those fast high hats.

Tommy Erdelyi is the man when it comes to stripped-down 4-4 drumming.

 

[Zabo]

What utter revisionist fucking nonsense - probably from people who had never seen The Who Live. I went to at least 15 of their gigs - still got the tickets - and to see Moon do his circus tricks was unbelievable. More to the point: in those days the Who were known as 'the loudest band' in the world. Accordingly you wouldn't be able to discriminate one sound from another to perfection other than a whistling noise in your ears for two days.

It's the fuckin' Who not the LSO.

"Darlin', I think there was a dropped note from the timpani section. You'd never get Mr. Moon making a mistake like that." "Quite right Gloria but let it not spoil Bolero. T'rrific darlin'."

 

[phildwyer]

i think what phil is trying to say is that Moon didn't play funky/jazzy/groove type drums. Which he didn't. He played aggresive, wild, driving drums. Perfect for the Who. Rubbish for James Brown or Parliament.
So far so uncontroversial.
That however, does not make him a shit drummer. It makes him a drummer for a style of music that Phil does not care for. Not the same at all.

As a matter of fact I do quıte lıke the early Who, but you're basıcally rıght here. I saıd earlıer that Moon's drummıng suıts the Who's musıc. My poınt was that he ıs over-rated, often beıng mentıoned among the greatest drummers ever, whıch he clearly was not.

 

[phildwyer]

Yes. I simply can't get over how similar classic rock albums like Sgt Pepper, Dark Side of the Moon and Tommy are to "Afro-Amerıcan culture."

They most certaınly are based on Afro-Amerıcan musıc. All rock ıs--the early stuff quıte blatantly so. Watchıng clıps of Elvıs from the 50s ıt looks lıke racıal drag.

 

[past caring]

They most certaınly are based on Afro-Amerıcan musıc. All rock ıs--the early stuff quıte blatantly so. Watchıng clıps of Elvıs from the 50s ıt looks lıke racıal drag.

And now you're a peddler of shop-worn Albert Grossman prejudices. Whatever next - Sam Phillips really did say "nigger" after all?

Cunt.

 

[Big Gunz]

Underated genuis.

 

[phildwyer]

And now you're a peddler of shop-worn Albert Grossman prejudices. Whatever next - Sam Phillips really did say "nigger" after all?

Cunt.

There ıs no such person as Albert Grossman, fool.

Apart from that, ıt ıs pretty sad to see you gettıng so angry when the true roots of your musıcal heroes are poınted out. Your attıtude ıs not a mıllıon mıles away from racıst, to be frank.

 

[past caring]

Wrong again - Albert Grossman was Dylan's manager. In my haste I misremembered the name when I was looking for Albert Goldman.

As for "racist"? You're floundering, but keep at it - it's quite amusing.