skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Big difference between being critical of Islam and Islamophobia though.
Radical Dance Faction (RDF) come out as pro fascist
- Thread starter RevolutionSound
- Start date
Big difference between being critical of Islam and Islamophobia though.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
true, but the number of times criticism falls over into bigotry is far too large and too common
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
It's the old good faith-bad faith dance.
Sometimes just asking questions really does mean just asking questions, but all too often it means just asking questions
Once upon a time doing your own research meant literally just researching something yourself but now doing your own research has a very please-abandon-all-logic-watch-these-idiotic-YouTube-videos-and-jump-into-my-toxic-rabbit-hole vibe to it.
Sometimes just asking questions really does mean just asking questions, but all too often it means just asking questions
Once upon a time doing your own research meant literally just researching something yourself but now doing your own research has a very please-abandon-all-logic-watch-these-idiotic-YouTube-videos-and-jump-into-my-toxic-rabbit-hole vibe to it.
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pointless_walks
Plus est en Vous
Sure. And while of course we can be critical of organised religion as a whole without straying into racism, racists latch on to Islam as a catch-all for 'the other' claiming plausible deniability. The irony of course is that good old Christendom is potentially more of a threat to the world than ever in the guise of American Evangelism, be it the AiDS crisis in Africa, the gathering storm in the Middle East or the small matter of a nationwide abortion ban should the Orange One regain the White House.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh if you look at the islamic community you'll soon see there are a range of strands within it, based in part on eg shia / sunni differences but also, within eg the whitechapel bangadeshi community, on which side you/your family supported in the civil war. and if you're an anti-fascist in whitechapel and you don't pay attention to the nuances within the local muslim community you might as well give up now. either you work with them or you substitute yourself for them.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Non-bigoted criticism is automatically labelled as bigotry too often and too easily too. For all sorts of things.
zedr
new but not *that* new
Right, but the justification for their critique was that Islam is a fundamentally conservative religion. Which to me comes across as a blanket assumption which will only further bigotry. When pressed for examples it was the classic hit list of grooming gangs, subjugation of women and terrorism.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Lol cos terrorism is well conservative ofc.
There are a couple of points that I tried to raise on Chris's original FB post and that was the fact he made mention of "Two Tier Policing" which was Nigel Farage's complaint about Kier Starmer calling out the right wing riots after the Stockport stabbings but not calling out the Bangladeshi community and their rioting in Whitechapel the week before.
I made pains to explain that the Whitechapel riots were factions within the Bangladeshi community fighting amongst themselves and was brought under control by the Police and the community.
The riots were not in response to misinformation spread by right wing shills (Andrew Tate, Nigel Farage and Laurence Fox) which incited people to attack innocent people because of their religion, asylum status or nationality.
Secondly, Chris claimed that the recent riots in Leeds had something to do with Hareshill having a 40% Bangladeshi community.
I pointed out that the Hareshill riots started after social services and the Police upset the Romanian community in that area.
Sadly Chris preferred to dig in, take a defensive position and argue with people who were more aggressive in their shock and displeasure in what he said, rather than listen to those of us who tried to point out the folly of his statements and the lies he was sharing.
The fact is you can be anti fascist and still say racist things. I feel Chris was being casually racist and has been radicalised to some degree.
What was more appalling was the amount of people who said he was right in what he said, which were the people he chose to listen to.
RevolutionSound
Well-Known Member
Yep, plenty of brown nosers on his Facebook profile
And the woefully asinine "how do you think you would fair in Afghanistan, under ISIS?", comeback.
Everything I read was like a 15 year old trying to defend why they joined the National Front.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
Yesterday (in 2015) I was jumping around to RDF at Boomtown
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
All our troubles seemed so far away
pointless_walks
Plus est en Vous
Yeah nailed it, extremely well-reasoned, I hadn't seen that til just now. Yes I think I read just about every comment on those two Fb posts, so likely I would've read yours too. I didn't comment myself, didn't have the energy to get involved with so many pillocks on there, but good to see some intelligent responses.There are a couple of points that I tried to raise on Chris's original FB post and that was the fact he made mention of "Two Tier Policing" which was Nigel Farage's complaint about Kier Starmer calling out the right wing riots after the Stockport stabbings but not calling out the Bangladeshi community and their rioting in Whitechapel the week before.
I made pains to explain that the Whitechapel riots were factions within the Bangladeshi community fighting amongst themselves and was brought under control by the Police and the community.
The riots were not in response to misinformation spread by right wing shills (Andrew Tate, Nigel Farage and Laurence Fox) which incited people to attack innocent people because of their religion, asylum status or nationality.
Secondly, Chris claimed that the recent riots in Leeds had something to do with Hareshill having a 40% Bangladeshi community.
I pointed out that the Hareshill riots started after social services and the Police upset the Romanian community in that area.
Sadly Chris preferred to dig in, take a defensive position and argue with people who were more aggressive in their shock and displeasure in what he said, rather than listen to those of us who tried to point out the folly of his statements and the lies he was sharing.
The fact is you can be anti fascist and still say racist things. I feel Chris was being casually racist and has been radicalised to some degree.
What was more appalling was the amount of people who said he was right in what he said, which were the people he chose to listen to.
And today there was post number 3:
More of the same, moving goalposts around, self-pity, unfounded accusation, etc etc. I mean, how does he know that any of those who pushed back on his nonsense actually contacted promoters or venues? He's just assuming they did, either that or encouraging more intimidation. The one promoter who did drop RDF could have found out by reading the post themselves (or collectively) after all. He seems unable to desist...which is his right after all, it's his wall...but every subsequent statement makes it worse for him. Some very well-meaning friends are pleading with him to take a fkin break. And I mean, I've seen literally no-one actually call him a fascist on these posts, yet that's the accusation from him and his loyal suck-ups ("I've known you 20 years mate you ain't a fascist" etc). What he has done, though, is to give potential succour to some very bad people at the worst possible moment and yet he abjectly refuses to recognise that. The conceit of the bloke.
Re. the attached comment section on this new post (200-and-counting)? Well many of those original dissenters have yet to get involved again up to now and I hope it stays that way, the effect being a more concentrated bunch of apologists, toadies, and people who say stuff like:
"George Soros...start there if you want the truth.." (comment liked by Bowsher). ≖‿≖
Sometimes silence is a valid option.
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After Chris repeated the Farage line about Two Tier Policing, I gave up and blocked him.
I'd already had a couple of run ins with fools who conflated my pointing out their rhetoric was lies being peddled by EDL types, with calling them EDL' types.
*See attached screenshot
There's really no educating fools who have little experience or understanding about the things they're talking about and have more defensive reflexes than reasoning skills.
I feel a little cowardly for bowing out but it's an enormous amount of emotional labour involved trying to converse with such ignorant and brutally narrow minded individuals.
Attachments
pointless_walks
Plus est en Vous
The one small edit to my last comment was "have yet to get involved again" rather than "have failed to get involved again" re. this latest post & folks like yourself. In other words I don't blame you one bit. Why follow Bowsher and his apologists round in circles..
PTK
Paul Kegan
Well, Islamist terrorism is right-wing.
And that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation here.
Chris made comments based on the Policing of riots that were sparked by Right Wing shills saying the perpetrator of the Stockport stabbings was Muslim.
The young man in question was not Muslim.
Chris went on to say that the riots in Leeds happened because of the 40% Muslim population when the Hareshill rioting was caused by a stand off between the social services, Police and the Roma community.
What Chris did was spread malicious lies that we now see appealed to his confirmation bias and he repeated rhetoric from Nigel Farage which was also not entirely true.
None of this should have been about immigration or Muslims, it just gave those with an agenda a reason to spread lies and incite violence.
I have peaceful, law abiding Muslim colleagues who's parents were scared to go to Prayers because of this shit.
I don't see any Christians fearful of going to church.....
PTK
Paul Kegan
I was correcting what I considered to be an incorrect statement. I agree with the comments that you have posted.
I neglected to say I agree with your point that promoters might have seen Chris's posts and made their decision based on that rather than hearsay or being drawn to the argument.
Most promoters in this field (pun intended) are fans of the music and the bands so many well have seen the awful comments first hand.
It's pretty disingenuous for Chris to suggest promotors, who ultimately hold the right to decide who they want to play their shows/festivals might have been coerced into pulling RDF.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I don't see what your peaceful law-abiding Muslim colleagues' pacific natures or law abidingness has to do with their parents being scared of going to prayers
Their parents were scared because of all the anti Muslim garbage being spread around the Stockport stabbings which then led to rioting and attacks on Mosques and hotels housing asylum seekers.
I need to add these riots were incited by the same lies and racist garbage that Chris was sharing in his posts.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh. So the peacefulness and law abidingness, where's the relevance of those qualities in your colleagues?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh you seem on the verge of suggesting there are Muslims deserving of support and solidarity and Muslims who aren't, perhaps based on the behaviour of their children. It's the only reason I can see for raising the otherwise utterly irrelevant qualities of your colleagues
That's pure assumption on your part.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh well I've asked you about it several times only to receive flannel in return. Which makes me think there's something to the assumption as you've shown no interest in advancing another explanation
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Sorry, when were these Stockport stabbings? I think I must have missed them in all the furore after the Southport incident
The relevance is that Chris was generalising about Muslims and I was speaking from the experience I have.
You seem to want to divert from the actual point of this thread, I have neither the time or any reason to be diverted from the issues raised by Chris's posts.
Southport stabbings/Stockport riots
Autocorrect is not our friend.
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