Joe Biden's time is up

[Smokeandsteam]

It utterly baffles me how anyone who isn't a bourgeois parasite can look at what was done to Detroit and think "Yep, that should be done to the whole country". Combine that with the geopolitical fatalism ("the rise of China ... is a historical inevitability") and seeing the co-opting of organisations like BLM by the Dems as being a good thing, and it's a heady mix that looks tailor-made to appeal to the fears of right-wingers ("they want to bring down America!") while also alienating working class Americans in general.

I didn't mention it before because the conversation had moved on a bit, but now it's back on the table I'm wondering how common such views are, because they're rare as rocking-horse shit in my own political bubble.

Detroit is merely the poster boy for deindustrialised America. Flint, Gary, Youngstown, Kenosha, Muncie, the outer zones of Pittsburgh and Phily etc etc. There are hundreds of places in the same boat: abandoned places of inhabited deriliction, ruin, white flight, rocketing mortality levels, homelessness, the explosion of opioid addiction, gang crime. Nascent plunder zones of capital are emerging in peripheral areas of cities like LA and SF where mainly migrant workers are employed in conditions that mirror those of the countries where the migrants have fled from.

The emergence of these conditions were critical in the rise of Trump, allied to a growing popular understanding that resources are allocated on identity grounds and that appeals to capital can only succeed on that basis. The concept that workers/communities could mobilise in other ways vanishingly rare.

Biden’s support doesn’t come from these areas. Precisely because the Dems generally and Biden specifically have played an important role in creating the economic conditions that have led to the destruction of these areas. The key demographic for Dem support in 2020 was its dwindling base supplemented with a surge in support from the suburbs and the ‘knowledge economy’ class. As such his presidency represents a sense that a return to technocratic centrism can act as a bulwark against the collapse reaching their jobs and communities. But of course in attempting to do so it merely fuels further the alienation you describe and, anyway, is almost inevitably going to fail.

I think Paul is lampooning those ‘on the left’ who completely misunderstand what Biden is, what he represents and what he’s going to do and the fatal error of being perceived to be part of ‘team Biden’

 

[PaulOK]

As long as he keeps taking whatever he's on

I'm high on life !

 

[petee]

Detroit is merely the poster boy for deindustrialised America. Flint, Gary, Youngstown, Kenosha, Muncie, the outer zones of Pittsburgh and Phily etc etc. There are hundreds of places in the same boat: abandoned places of inhabited deriliction, ruin, white flight, rocketing mortality levels, homelessness, the explosion of opioid addiction, gang crime. Nascent plunder zones of capital are emerging in peripheral areas of cities like LA and SF where mainly migrant workers are employed in conditions that mirror those of the countries where the migrants have fled from.

The emergence of these conditions were critical in the rise of Trump, allied to a growing popular understanding that resources are allocated on identity grounds and that appeals to capital can only succeed on that basis. The concept that workers/communities could mobilise in other ways vanishingly rare.

Biden’s support doesn’t come from these areas. Precisely because the Dems generally and Biden specifically have played an important role in creating the economic conditions that have led to the destruction of these areas. The key demographic for Dem support in 2020 was its dwindling base supplemented with a surge in support from the suburbs and the ‘knowledge economy’ class. As such his presidency represents a sense that a return to technocratic centrism can act as a bulwark against the collapse reaching their jobs and communities. But of course in attempting to do so it merely fuels further the alienation you describe and, anyway, is almost inevitably going to fail.

I think Paul is lampooning those ‘on the left’ who completely misunderstand what Biden is, what he represents and what he’s going to do and the fatal error of being perceived to be part of ‘team Biden’

this may be the most ignorant and presumptuous post on this thread.
can i support my claim? why yes i could, but i can also try to level everest with a chainsaw.

 

[PaulOK]

Detroit is merely the poster boy for deindustrialised America. Flint, Gary, Youngstown, Kenosha, Muncie, the outer zones of Pittsburgh and Phily etc etc. There are hundreds of places in the same boat: abandoned places of inhabited deriliction, ruin, white flight, rocketing mortality levels, homelessness, the explosion of opioid addiction, gang crime. Nascent plunder zones of capital are emerging in peripheral areas of cities like LA and SF where mainly migrant workers are employed in conditions that mirror those of the countries where the migrants have fled from.

The emergence of these conditions were critical in the rise of Trump, allied to a growing popular understanding that resources are allocated on identity grounds and that appeals to capital can only succeed on that basis. The concept that workers/communities could mobilise in other ways vanishingly rare.

Biden’s support doesn’t come from these areas. Precisely because the Dems generally and Biden specifically have played an important role in creating the economic conditions that have led to the destruction of these areas. The key demographic for Dem support in 2020 was its dwindling base supplemented with a surge in support from the suburbs and the ‘knowledge economy’ class. As such his presidency represents a sense that a return to technocratic centrism can act as a bulwark against the collapse reaching their jobs and communities. But of course in attempting to do so it merely fuels further the alienation you describe and, anyway, is almost inevitably going to fail.

I think Paul is lampooning those ‘on the left’ who completely misunderstand what Biden is, what he represents and what he’s going to do and the fatal error of being perceived to be part of ‘team Biden’

All solid and interesting points but you neglect the rise of the Left in the Democratic Party who are the youngest and most energetic faction (the Centrist elements are literally in their 70s now. Pelosi was born before Pearl Harbor and Schumer is probably the youngest of the Elite group). We have the youth and the Energy. You can actually talk about Social Democracy (and even Socialism) now in Democratic circles and not get laughed out of town. UBI is a hot topic too. Sure, they stopped Bernie in 2016 and 2020 but they may not be able to stop AOC in future and I honestly look forward to a Harris run in 2024. She is a blank page politicallly but her "weather vane" qualitities means she can be swung to the Left if there is a strong movement in the Party. Things are really going the Left's way in the States and I am incredibly optimistic. I live in a Blue State where people are embarrassed to admit they are Republicans. Social Media is dominated by the Left and all the main media outlets are sympathetic. That's new and positive.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

this may be the most ignorant and presumptuous post on this thread.
can i support my claim? why yes i could, but i can also try to level everest with a chainsaw.

You need to do better than that

I’ve made 5 points:

1. the spatial pattern of deindustrialisation in America is wider and deeper than people in the UK often realise. In all of these places the concomitant issues are present and worsening.
2. New plunder zones are being established in the peripheral areas of major cities where migrant Labour is being exploited and organised in ways that are akin to the countries the workers have come from.
3. That these conditions played a decisive role in the rise of Trump along with declining wage levels and rising poverty levels.
4. That Biden and the Democrats helped to create these conditions and that the increase in the Democrat vote was from the suburbs and the knowledge class in the cities. It did not come from places like Youngstown.
5. That the interests of ‘the left’ in America lie with putting clear red water between themselves and Biden. Failure to do so will open up an even bigger vacuum begging to be filled from the right.

So, given that my post is the most ‘ignorant and presumptive’ you’ve read you either need to engage with those points or risk demonstrating where they presumptive ignorance truly lies....

 

[PaulOK]

I honestly have a hard time believing that they're for real. They literally talked about "managed decline" for the entire United States. Because you know, that worked out so very fucking fine when it was done to Detroit.

I was talking about managed decline in terms of America's position as a dominant superpower which has been clearly declining for decades now (and that is a positive thing). The sooner America draws away from being the World's police officer the better. The deindustrialization in the West generally since the 1970s have been poorly mismanaged but for cities like Detroit it has been handled particularly badly. However there is no going back to the old Economy. Detroit and other cities like it depends on the Green and Tech industrial Revolution (which we are only at the start of BTW). Only the Democrats, the likes of AOC and groups like the DSA are even talking about this.

 

[maomao]

I'm not sure anyone's being entirely serious on this thread at the moment but I reckon the left in the US are in a much better position than the left in the UK at the moment. Don't think that has much to do with old Joe though.

 

[PaulOK]

I'm not sure anyone's being entirely serious on this thread at the moment but I reckon the left in the US are in a much better position than the left in the UK at the moment. Don't think that has much to do with old Joe though.

It's pretty clear that Biden is a one term President and he has described himself as a "transitional" figure. It's clear that he won't be transitioning to 1990s Clinton-esque politics, the transition will be to the Left. In a way this will be Obama's third term but with more progressivism. Obama was held back because he himself was terrified of the White backlash (which later came in 2016). Even he recently admitted this and at the funeral oration to John Lewis is stated that the Democrats should push for game changing measures in Congress. Biden/Harris are not held back. The Republicans are currently in disarray with figures like Bannon openly criticizing McConnell. They are appealing to an aging and diminishing demographic. The real power going forward with be between various parts of the Democratic Party and that is incredibly positive for the Left.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's pretty clear that Biden is a one term President and he has described himself as a "transitional" figure. It's clear that he won't be transitioning to 1990s Clinton-esque politics, the transition will be to the Left. In a way this will be Obama's third term but with more progressivism. Obama was held back because he himself was terrified of the White backlash (which later came in 2016). Even he recently admitted this and at the funeral oration to John Lewis is stated that the Democrats should push for game changing measures in Congress. Biden/Harris are not held back. The Republicans are currently in disarray with figures like Bannon openly criticizing McConnell. They are appealing to an aging and diminishing demographic. The real power going forward with be between various parts of the Democratic Party and that is incredibly positive for the Left.

The aging and diminishing demographic which turned out in increased numbers for trump in November. Right, we can just write them off

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The aging and diminishing demographic which turned out in increased numbers for trump in November. Right, we can just write them off

And which is increasingly diverse in nature.

 

[NoXion]

I was talking about managed decline in terms of America's position as a dominant superpower which has been clearly declining for decades now (and that is a positive thing). The sooner America draws away from being the World's police officer the better. The deindustrialization in the West generally since the 1970s have been poorly mismanaged but for cities like Detroit it has been handled particularly badly. However there is no going back to the old Economy. Detroit and other cities like it depends on the Green and Tech industrial Revolution (which we are only at the start of BTW). Only the Democrats, the likes of AOC and groups like the DSA are even talking about this.

Biden doesn't seem to have read the memo about the US's declining superpower status. Also, just a little rhetorical advice, but if you ever want ordinary folks to go along with your politics, then you would do well to avoid sounding like you're basically cheerleading for the next superpower that comes along. People like the idea of their loved ones not coming home in body bags. They're not so hot about fifth columnists.

Green? Maybe. Tech? What the fuck have they done to deserve any credit? Their list of crimes is long. Big Tech have created abusive monopolies, built misinformation networks that feed conspiracy theories and terrorism, they are pushing the exploitative "gig economy", their profits have all waxed fat in this tragedy of a pandemic, they attempt to subvert democracy, do I need to go on?!

 

[PaulOK]

Biden doesn't seem to have read the memo about the US's declining superpower status. Also, just a little rhetorical advice, but if you ever want ordinary folks to go along with your politics, then you would do well to avoid sounding like you're basically cheerleading for the next superpower that comes along. People like the idea of their loved ones not coming home in body bags. They're not so hot about fifth columnists.

Green? Maybe. Tech? What the fuck have they done to deserve any credit? Their list of crimes is long. Big Tech have created abusive monopolies, built misinformation networks that feed conspiracy theories and terrorism, they are pushing the exploitative "gig economy", their profits have all waxed fat in this tragedy of a pandemic, they attempt to subvert democracy, do I need to go on?!

I love your energy. We need it in the Big Tent Democratic Party. Thank you for the links. I will read with interest.

 

[petee]

see, he's finished. who can put up with this.

Interior withdraws Trump-era opinion that stripped tribal ownership in Missouri River

The Interior Department under newly confirmed Secretary Deb Haaland has withdrawn an opinion by the Trump administration that concluded the portion of the Missouri River that flows through the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation belongs to the state of North Dakota.Why it matters: Withdrawing the...

www.yahoo.com

 

[ska invita]

Theres a much better thread to post this on but I can't remember what it is

Anyway, this is good:

 

[hitmouse]

Detroit is merely the poster boy for deindustrialised America. Flint, Gary, Youngstown, Kenosha, Muncie, the outer zones of Pittsburgh and Phily etc etc. There are hundreds of places in the same boat: abandoned places of inhabited deriliction, ruin, white flight, rocketing mortality levels, homelessness, the explosion of opioid addiction, gang crime. Nascent plunder zones of capital are emerging in peripheral areas of cities like LA and SF where mainly migrant workers are employed in conditions that mirror those of the countries where the migrants have fled from.

The emergence of these conditions were critical in the rise of Trump, allied to a growing popular understanding that resources are allocated on identity grounds and that appeals to capital can only succeed on that basis. The concept that workers/communities could mobilise in other ways vanishingly rare.

Biden’s support doesn’t come from these areas. Precisely because the Dems generally and Biden specifically have played an important role in creating the economic conditions that have led to the destruction of these areas. The key demographic for Dem support in 2020 was its dwindling base supplemented with a surge in support from the suburbs and the ‘knowledge economy’ class. As such his presidency represents a sense that a return to technocratic centrism can act as a bulwark against the collapse reaching their jobs and communities. But of course in attempting to do so it merely fuels further the alienation you describe and, anyway, is almost inevitably going to fail.

Belated, but have you read Hinterland by Phil Neel?

 

[petee]

Theres a much better thread to post this on

no, there isn't.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Belated, but have you read Hinterland by Phil Neel?

No. Should I?

 

[hitmouse]

No. Should I?

I'd definitely recommend as one of the best books about communist geography, or the geography of class, or whatever you want to call it. Uh, here's a blurb and a few quotes about it:

Over the last forty years, the landscape of the USA has been fundamentally transformed. It is partially visible in the ascendance of glittering coastal hubs for finance, infotech and the so-called ‘creative class’. But this is only the tip of an economic iceberg, the bulk of which lies in the darkness of the declining heartland or on the dimly lit fringe of sprawling cities. This is America’s hinterland.

Drawing on his direct experience of recent popular unrest, Phil A. Neel provides a close-up and intimate view of this landscape in all its grim but captivating detail.

‘Neel draws on his personal experience of precarious, low-wage labor to highlight the new economic and social geography that global capitalism is shaping. A new entry in the Reaktion Books series Field Notes, which examines 'today’s global turmoil as it unfolds,' Neel’s Hinterland analyzes the increasing agglomeration of wealth and opportunity in a few key urban centers, the resulting hollowing out of rural areas, and the political consequences and opportunities these changes present, chiefly in the United States. Against the decades of global economic restructuring under neoliberalism, with its massive upward redistributions of wealth and widening inequality, something has to give. Neel emphasizes the anger and violence roiling beneath the surface of our daily lives. Whether the pending rebellion can be harnessed to create a more just order or will fuel reactionary, ethnonationalist ends remains to be seen. What seems obvious to Neel, however, is that the center cannot hold.’ — H-Socialisms

‘this provocative book is a complicated study of life in deindustrialized zones across the country, with implications for similar areas around the globe. By examining the human and geographical byproducts of an economic order in which “dispossession occurs across decades”, Neel elaborates on the reasons why hinterland populations resist (and resent) global systems of power. As a result, Hinterland offers a way of thinking about regional life and culture that is not beholden to traditional boundaries.’ — Middle West Review

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'd definitely recommend as one of the best books about communist geography, or the geography of class, or whatever you want to call it. Uh, here's a blurb and a few quotes about it:

Ta. Looks excellent, completely passed me by but now added to the reading list.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Very interesting article about how private equity is successfully lobbying against both the minimum wage and union organising. Biden and Harris could have faced them down but folded like a cheap suit. Plus ca change....

Arby’s Says It Helped Kill the $15 Minimum Wage

Inspire Brands — which owns Jimmy John's, Arby’s, Sonic, Buffalo Wild Wings, and Dunkin’ — bragged in internal documents about its role preventing workers from getting a living wage. $15 an hour and a union is the least we should be demanding from predatory corporations.

www.jacobinmag.com

 

[petee]

disgusting. no respect for our borders. he has to go.

U.S. Ends Trump Policy Limiting Asylum for Gang and Domestic Violence Survivors (Published 2021)

The decision will affect tens of thousands of cases moving through backlogged immigration courts.

www.nytimes.com

Attorney General Merrick B. Garland reversed on Wednesday Trump-era immigration rulings that had made it all but impossible for people to seek asylum in the United States over credible fears of domestic abuse or gang violence, marking one of the Justice Department’s most significant breaks with the previous administration.

 

[petee]

hey look, i found a drawing of some people who don't post here anymore

 

[petee]

he has to go

 

[8ball]

His time isn’t up yet, but I’m finding it harder right now to see scenarios where Trump doesn’t become the next President. Main spanner in the works being Biden dying or becoming undeniably mentally incapable in the next couple of years.

Likewise, I think we’re heading for a defacto one party state with Boris Johnson at the helm, though I’d say that’s less of a cert than the Trump thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

His time isn’t up yet, but I’m finding it harder right now to see scenarios where Trump doesn’t become the next President. Main spanner in the works being Biden dying or becoming undeniably mentally incapable in the next couple of years.

Likewise, I think we’re heading for a defacto one party state with Boris Johnson at the helm, though I’d say that’s less of a cert than the Trump thing.

Trump will be fucked if Jeff Lowe comes out in support of him

 

[ska invita]

Likewise, I think we’re heading for a defacto one party state with Boris Johnson at the helm, though I’d say that’s less of a cert than the Trump thing.

Its a one party state even if Sir Starmer wins

 

[8ball]

Its a one party state even if Sir Starmer wins

I wasn’t including scenarios that far out on the probability curve.

 

[two sheds]

Gerrymandering and voter suppression will be enough I think unless Biden does something. I saw one report that the Republicans are trying to take charge of the count, not sure how true that is though.

Going to be bad for Europe too - loads of funding for far right and anti-abortion groups.

 

[8ball]

Gerrymandering and voter suppression will be enough I think unless Biden does something.

I think just the engineering of people into the right places who can “find votes” for Trump will be enough.

 

[petee]

trump while a sitting president got whomped in the last election. i don't know why anyone thinks he's getting in again. the rightwing goon tactics are working on the level of school boards and such but they're not the electoral college, and the recount tactics have failed every time, even when led by republicans.

the problem will be the democratic candidate. if part of the deal with harris was to train her up to run in 2024, the party is doing a bad job of it. if part of the deal was that she "looks like" the future while trump "looks like" the past, it may be too soon, on a pure hardball-politics level. but it might be civil war within the party if a #whitemale is the nominee. there are few who could split the difference, i can only think of sherrod brown.