Jim Murphy is new Scottish Labour leader.

[weepiper]

Contemptuous, much? It's not just the Labour Party you hate, clearly.

Are you pissed?

 

[William of Walworth]

Not especially. Just finished a big meal.

 

[William of Walworth]

The Libs copped it in 2011 and they're about to cop it again (their Westminster vote looks certain to collapse this time). Would the Labour vote be collapsing the same way if Labour had taken a neutral position on the indyref?

Being more serious -- that's a very interesting question. Was there ever any possibility in Scotland that the LP could have adopted a more neutral position? I doubt it.

But even as No campaigners, they could surely have made a lot more effort to steer much clearer of the Tories, and ended up being a bit more effective as a result. Counter factual speculation that though, I admit.

 

[Sue]

Feel free to be as dismissively rude as you like, but how about reading my post that you quoted properly?

In it, I was

(a) Saying exactly that -- I can see quite well that Scotland is different. Do you ever patronise people yourself by any chance?

(b) Saying quite a bit more than that anyway, in my effort to understand it.

Have you any how that reads? You've no fucking understanding about any of this. Ffs, get a grip

 

[William of Walworth]

Have you any how that reads? You've no fucking understanding about any of this. Ffs, get a grip

Trying to, I really do appreciate I'm an outsider, but I honestly want to know more -- I am reading all the links etc that people are putting up.

I know some of my stuff hasn't come over well, so apologies for that, but the post you quote was a response to quite a rude one directed at me by another poster.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Trying to, I really do appreciate I'm an outsider

Don't sweat it. A quite vocal proportion of new-to-activism SNP members have gone full zealot. It's quite a febrile atmosphere.

 

[weepiper]

I'm going to be really childish now and point out that the Labour-dominated South Wales that William doesn't feel he needs to do anything about people voting Tory in because it's not 'English marginals' currently has 5 Tory MPs. Vs one in the whole of Scotland.

 

[danny la rouge]

Trying to, I really do appreciate I'm an outsider, but I honestly want to know more -- I am reading all the links etc that people are putting up.

Hi Will.

I'm not sure what it is that you don't get. The Labour Party is finally tanking in popularity in Scotland. The surprise to me is that it's taken so long.

Other than coming here and seeing what's going on for yourself, I'm not sure what else to say.

However, maybe some articles and blogs might help. (I'm not saying I agree with all that's said in these, just that they provide a flavour of the atmosphere):

http://www.bankierepublic.org/2015/04/look-back-in-anger/

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/14/ish-the-problem-for-scottish-labour/

https://iainmacwhirter.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/the-independence-referendum-what-really-changed/

https://commonspace.scot/articles/1...hy-leadership-crisis-in-scotland-after-ge2015

https://commonspace.scot/articles/892/red-line-return-power-to-the-people

 

[William of Walworth]

Thanks for those linke danny la rouge -- I doubt I've seen any of them so will be on to them ASAP.

Will read them tomorrow/Tuesday though, as debbie will be calling me over to watch Poldark imminently ...

Other than that I want to stay off this thread after this. I'm not making any friends on it and it shouldn't be 'all about me' (or even at all) anyway. Apologies to anybody/everyone I've pissed off. Genuinely.

 

[danny la rouge]

debbie will be calling me over to watch Poldark imminently ...

Get your shots ready.

We down a shot every time he rides a horse along a cliff top.

 

[William of Walworth]

 

[weepiper]

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

tbh all those tweets and facebook posts about how this person and that has told me they hate Labour or are voting SNP reminds me of the breathless excitement from Respect and TUSC types and their "working class postman" who says he's had enough of Miliband's austerity lite etc.

It's the polls and the bookies odds that tell the true story (which just happens to be the same for once) imo.

 

[danny la rouge]

tbh all those tweets and facebook posts about how this person and that has told me they hate Labour or are voting SNP reminds me of the breathless excitement from Respect and TUSC types and their "working class postman" who says he's had enough of Miliband's austerity lite etc.

It's the polls and the bookies odds that tell the true story (which just happens to be the same for once) imo.

In general that's true. But the guy weeps has quoted is a political journalist. He's vox popping, in effect.

 

[brogdale]

Playing for the reds this morning....

Go on caption fans, fill yer boots!

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[Combustible]

Were they holding up a giant mirror or something?

 

[treelover]

Will the SNP hold to their new found left wing views and policies, what happens in the future, when the enthusiasm of many of its new converts has maybe waned a bit or people leave, or it is a near permanent change, is this possible?

 

[Pickman's model]

Will the SNP hold to their new found left wing views and policies, what happens in the future, when the enthusiasm of many of its new converts has maybe waned a bit or people leave, or it is a near permanent change, is this possible?

yes

 

[weepiper]

Murphy pulling a massive crowd in 'labour heartland' Glasgow just now

 

[gosub]

Will the SNP hold to their new found left wing views and policies, what happens in the future, when the enthusiasm of many of its new converts has maybe waned a bit or people leave, or it is a near permanent change, is this possible?

I think the real test in Scotland is 2016, I get the logic of a strong Scots voice in Westminster 2015, but if Holyrood goes the same way, an even more overwhelming SNP, effectively a one party state, which I don't think is healthy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think the real test in Scotland is 2016, I get the logic of a strong Scots voice in Westminster 2015, but if Holyrood goes the same way, an even more overwhelming SNP, effectively a one party state, which I don't think is healthy.

i don't know why you insist on blaming the electorate.

 

[Pickman's model]

Playing for the reds this morning....

Go on caption fans, fill yer boots!

murphy has only got one ball...

 

[nino_savatte]

Will the SNP hold to their new found left wing views and policies, what happens in the future, when the enthusiasm of many of its new converts has maybe waned a bit or people leave, or it is a near permanent change, is this possible?

"New found left wing views"? Much of the 79 Group's platform was adopted back in the very late 1980s.

 

[treelover]

Murphy pulling a massive crowd in 'labour heartland' Glasgow just now

Its noticeable how few are following all the Labour caravans across the U.k, and that most are Labour Students(NOLS)

 

[weepiper]

edit to add story

 

[danny la rouge]

Lord Tebbit says vote Scottish Labour.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-supporters-vote-labour-scotland-keep-out-snp

 

[weepiper]

*wipes tear*

 

[Sue]

*wipes tear*

Almost starting to feel sorry for the man.



I said *almost*....

 

[pogofish]

Lord Tebbit says vote Scottish Labour.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-supporters-vote-labour-scotland-keep-out-snp

Fuck - That really is the kiss of death...!