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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Happy Larry said:
Firstly, brother A, due to his work ethic, will be a highly sought after employee, even during a recession, so will have no problem finding employment.

Secondly, being prudent and hard working, he will have put aside some funds to carry him through the tough times.

Brother A looks after himself whilst Brother B depends on a nanny state to look after him.
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This is the main argument that the Tories use against the idea of a welfare state, it's very popular but it's still fucking dumb.
Yes we all know there are some lazy dipshits who scrounge off the system, so what? In a nation of 70 million people it is utterly impossible to design a perfect system so you have take one of 2 viewpoints either
a) In order for everyone in genuine need to get the help they need you have to put up with the odd deadbeat who takes a free ride
b) In order to make sure that no-one gets something they shouldn't you have to set the rules so tight that genuine cases lose out.
Not only is a) more civilized than b) it works out cheaper in the long run anyway, since it's the same stupid argument that says it's a good idea to drug test welfare recipients.
The belief seems to be that if you cut off their benefits, they'll have some kind of epiphany, go cold turkey and get a job, No they fucking won't, they'll just start stealing and it costs a lot more to lock people up.
There is a very small percentage of people on benefits who meet the stereotype that the Fail loves to push but they are vastly outnumbered by those in genuine need and helping the latter is worth the low cost of just ignoring the former.
 
Happy Larry said:
Socialism favours the lazy at the expense of the hardworking.

Say there are two brothers, both bricklayers. Brother A works hard, has bought his own house, works long hours and pays loads of tax. Brother B is constantly losing his job due to him pissing it up and not attending work. He lives in subsidised housing and regularly claims unemployment benefits due to being a lazy shit and preferring to take lengthy breaks from work.

Under a socialist system, hardworking brother A is indirectly subsidising the lifestyle of lazy shit brother B.

There are valid reasons why the Tories are the most popular political party.
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Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
 
nardy said:
Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
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parroted straight from the Sun...
 
nardy said:
Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
Click to expand...

Can I borrow your crystal ball?
 
nardy said:
Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
Click to expand...

Don’t you have some hard work to be getting on with ? There are new arrivals at Dover waiting for their £25 grand handout. IN CASH
 
If it's such a waste of time old bean, why bother coming here at all? Unless of course sneering and second-rate trollery is actually the best you can come up with. :)
 
nardy said:
Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
Click to expand...
Yet another statement with zero evidence to support it, the Tories have run the economy for my entire working life and it doesn't strike me that they've done a good job, indeed they came to power on a promise of sorting out the Labour "mess" well here we are are 7 years later with Sweet FA in the way of any improvement. There are major economies in the world whose natural politics run to the right of ours that are more successful than us such as the USA (though you could argue it's size and natural resources are more significant than any policy), the major EU powers like France and Germany tend to be more centrist (rather than left wing) and the Nordics are certainly more left leaning than the UK and it's right wing approach. All of them seem to be doing fine to me, so the right is good for the economy and the left is bad isn't a valid argument, it's just recycled talking points. No-one is suggesting that the UK should become another Venezuela (other than the crackpots who run the Fail or the Torygraph) but being more like Denmark or Sweden seems cool to me.
I have no idea whether or not Old Reborn Labour is going to do a good job on running the economy but its glaring obvious that the Tory Party doesn't have a sodding clue, not only that they insist on trying the same shit over and over again, lets try something different.
 
The Tories have come to the end of the line because to have a hope of staying in power they will have to reverse everything they have been banging on about since Thatch. They talk of capping fuel prices rent controls & building council houses but Corbyn's Labour will do all that better if thats what voters want. The next GE will be the battle of the have houses & the have not houses I think because the provision of decent affordable housing for all will require house owners & buy to letters to take a big hit on the value of their assets.
 
nardy said:
Don't waste your time with this lot. Just console yourself with the thought that, even if Corbyn does win next time, he'll make such a major fuck of the economy (upon which all social services rely) that the Tories will win the following 5++ elections in a row.
Click to expand...
Yeh just like they won this year
 
Happy Larry said:
Firstly, brother A, due to his work ethic, will be a highly sought after employee, even during a recession, so will have no problem finding employment.

Secondly, being prudent and hard working, he will have put aside some funds to carry him through the tough times.

Brother A looks after himself whilst Brother B depends on a nanny state to look after him.
Click to expand...

So we should all vote for a party who were all raised by actual nannies?
 
SaskiaJayne said:
The Tories have come to the end of the line because to have a hope of staying in power they will have to reverse everything they have been banging on about since Thatch. They talk of capping fuel prices rent controls & building council houses but Corbyn's Labour will do all that better if thats what voters want. The next GE will be the battle of the have houses & the have not houses I think because the provision of decent affordable housing for all will require house owners & buy to letters to take a big hit on the value of their assets.
Click to expand...

About the have houses and the have not houses thing.

The Tories have been relying on the support of the home owner demographic for quite a long time now, without doing anything to help people not on the market, and in fact making things worse for them not only by encouraging house prices to rise but by also squeezing wages, cutting services, and making them rack up enormous student debt. They basically ignored all the youth out of an assumption, based on the experience of their generation, that they would all get on the housing market sooner or later, without really thinking about how this would happen and putting up every obstacle towards it. Another reason they ignored it is because of a tired cliche that people become Tory as they get older - but this is of course not a natural law or inevitable, just a lazy cliche. And these lazy assumptions and oversights may well lead to their demise as a party unless they can successfully reinvent themselves soon.

Because suddenly, they're realising that they aren't just despised by a some students who will soon grow out of it as the baby boomers did, but by the vast majority of everyone under the age of 40. (and unlike baby boomer student radicals who were part of an elite, it is now about half of all school leavers who go to university.) Their membership has now plunged to less than a fifth of Labour's with an average age of 71 and rising. Soon Labour could be 6 or even 7 times larger than them, and much younger too. They are literally dying off, and as a symptom of this decaying membership they are stuck with a leader who is incompetent and literally a joke, but who they are unable to get rid of because the only viable alternatives - Boris, Rees-Mogg, Gove - are even worse. To survive, they have to fix the housing crisis, which in practise would mean repudiating their entire ideological identity and basically imitating the Labour Party. And they may not be able to change, because their memberships consists so much of real estate speculators and landlords, people who absolutely have to take a hit to solve the housing crisis, that they will never find the will to make the necessary steps they must to survive as a party.

They are very, very, very fucked, and despite looking fairly strong on the surface, based on fundementals like demographics, membership, and pool of talent, there is good reason to doubt their survival as a party over the next 20 years. A Labour landslide next election is basically inevitable, and I could totally see the Lib Dems riding on "centrist dad" type voters, right leaning Remainers, and former Tories to become the main opposition party/business party next to a Tory party that has spent much of its term manufacturing political crises through incompetence and misjudgement, causing great pain for none of the promised gain, selling out an entire generation, and, likely in this later stage, tearing itself apart through petty and ignoble infighting.
 
Rimbaud said:
About the have houses and the have not houses thing.

The Tories have been relying on the support of the home owner demographic for quite a long time now, without doing anything to help people not on the market, and in fact making things worse for them not only by encouraging house prices to rise but by also squeezing wages, cutting services, and making them rack up enormous student debt. They basically ignored all the youth out of an assumption, based on the experience of their generation, that they would all get on the housing market sooner or later, without really thinking about how this would happen and putting up every obstacle towards it. Another reason they ignored it is because of a tired cliche that people become Tory as they get older - but this is of course not a natural law or inevitable, just a lazy cliche. And these lazy assumptions and oversights may well lead to their demise as a party unless they can successfully reinvent themselves soon.

Because suddenly, they're realising that they aren't just despised by a some students who will soon grow out of it as the baby boomers did, but by the vast majority of everyone under the age of 40. (and unlike baby boomer student radicals who were part of an elite, it is now about half of all school leavers who go to university.) Their membership has now plunged to less than a fifth of Labour's with an average age of 71 and rising. Soon Labour could be 6 or even 7 times larger than them, and much younger too. They are literally dying off, and as a symptom of this decaying membership they are stuck with a leader who is incompetent and literally a joke, but who they are unable to get rid of because the only viable alternatives - Boris, Rees-Mogg, Gove - are even worse. To survive, they have to fix the housing crisis, which in practise would mean repudiating their entire ideological identity and basically imitating the Labour Party. And they may not be able to change, because their memberships consists so much of real estate speculators and landlords, people who absolutely have to take a hit to solve the housing crisis, that they will never find the will to make the necessary steps they must to survive as a party.

They are very, very, very fucked, and despite looking fairly strong on the surface, based on fundementals like demographics, membership, and pool of talent, there is good reason to doubt their survival as a party over the next 20 years. A Labour landslide next election is basically inevitable, and I could totally see the Lib Dems riding on "centrist dad" type voters, right leaning Remainers, and former Tories to become the main opposition party/business party next to a Tory party that has spent much of its term manufacturing political crises through incompetence and misjudgement, causing great pain for none of the promised gain, selling out an entire generation, and, likely in this later stage, tearing itself apart through petty and ignoble infighting.
Click to expand...

What about the really rich (esp. corporate) donors to the vermin? How long could they keep the Tory machine on life support?
 
Rimbaud said:
They are very, very, very fucked, and despite looking fairly strong on the surface, based on fundementals like demographics, membership, and pool of talent, there is good reason to doubt their survival as a party over the next 20 years. A Labour landslide next election is basically inevitable, and I could totally see the Lib Dems riding on "centrist dad" type voters, right leaning Remainers, and former Tories to become the main opposition party/business party next to a Tory party that has spent much of its term manufacturing political crises through incompetence and misjudgement, causing great pain for none of the promised gain, selling out an entire generation, and, likely in this later stage, tearing itself apart through petty and ignoble infighting.
Click to expand...

I'd love to agree with you, but by the time the next election comes around they will be nearly 190 years old as a recognizable political party and they have spent most of that time both being consistently wrong and consistently winning elections. They aren't going to die off, they aren't going to be crushed by the youth (who will like all young people get more self-deluded as they age) and they will find a way to "fix" the housing crisis that results in them benefiting the most.
 
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