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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Wilf said:
Grand Old Duke of Islington - he marched them (the 500,000) up to the top of the hill and he marched them down again.
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...and when they were left they were right and when they were right they were left and when they never met in the middle they went their separate ways...
 
Wilf said:
So, we get to it. Entirely laudable thing to do, adopting a child - genuinely (my partner used to be a foster carer, fwiw). But you gave this as your answer, when I asked about your politics, about what you are doing to defend public services. I think we've finally got to it haven't we - you are not doing anything. Me - stuff on and off since 1979 or so, for the first 10 years in the Labour Party, then anarcho politics, more recently anti-cuts, local solidarity movement, stuff on sanctions. But it's not a who can piss highest thing, I've said on here I've done nothing for the last year or more due to health issues. It's about having some sense of a process, a politics, fuck it, if nothing else a sense of connection. I was asking if you did anything about the things you believe in, because if you'd been involved in say a campaign against NHS cuts, in some degree, in some way, an aspect of that would have been extra-parliamentary. It wouldn't have been simply 'let's wait till the next election, err, that's it'. But it seems that's precisely your political approach 'Corbyn is shit, let's hope somebody else comes along to vote for in 2022'. From your perspective, how do you move things on, what do you do to make the changes you want? Anything, anything at all???
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Nice rant, except it’s just a personal attack which says nothing about how to stop the tories and their ongoing unrelenting demolition of public services.

You say "it’s not about who can piss the highest" but that is precisely what you’re doing by demanding to know my political activities so you can compare them to your own. Are you trying to imply that my opinion on Corbyn is less valuable because I don’t have a chest full of activist campaign medals like you?

For what it’s worth, I too used to be involved with the Labour Party and I was active member of Friends of the Earth and CND, but that has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion. Taking just one child out of the perpetual circle of abuse is in my opinion worth more than any amount of picketing, meetings, arguing, shouting or marching.


Anarcho politics...
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:facepalm:

How many urgent operations has ‘anarcho politics’ prevented being cancelled? How many at risk children has it given the care they need?
 
Gramsci said:
As I'm one of people opposing the sell off of the adventure playground in Lambeth the picture is more complicated than a Labour Council dealing with cuts.

Lambeth Labour is controlled by the Progress wing of the Labour party. Going back to the days of Blair. As I'm sure ViolentPanda can explain they are hostile to traditional Council housing.

There view is that state provision is part of the post war Welfare State that leads to "dependency". That services should be offloaded to public/private partnerships and social enterprises. Local government should change from a provider to an enabler.

They see this as return of the Labour party to being about self help not asking for handouts. The "Co-op Council" they call it.

If this sounds like Cameron's Big Society it's about the same.

A Progess led Labour Party would still be pursuing "austerity" , which as ViolentPanda has pointed out is ideological choice.

So what I'm saying is that Lambeth Labour run Council would be pursuing this agenda whatever government is in power.

On the adventure playground we now know a charity with experience of running adventure playgrounds had approached the Council to run it. The Council turned them down. They see doing deals with developers as the way forward. Public/private partnerships.

Lambeth Labour Progress/ Blairites loathe Corbyn. There choice for leader was Liz Kendal.
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I appreciate what you and others have been saying about Lambeth, but I’m judging Labour by their performance in national government against the performance of the tories in national government. They are still the only two choices available and time is running out for too many essential public services.
 
Wilf said:
From your perspective, how do you move things on, what do you do to make the changes you want? Anything, anything at all???
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If you want to try and move things on then keep doing what you're doing Wilf, but how long do you want us to wait for real change to happen? Someone mentioned at least 40 years earlier in the thread. It'll be too late for public services if the tories stay in government for most of the next decade, let alone the next four. And don't forget that real change can only happen once the electorate choose a government which will enact it. Also, for everyone trying to move things to the left, there are going to be just as many trying to move it to the right.
 
And I hadn't looked at the detail yet : plenty in the leaked draft (in yesterday's Mirror) that I liked a lot ..... but is it all just too bloody detailed and wordy?

Draft to final process should include some editing perhaps. Not of policy but of too many WORDS ... the late Kaufman had a pithy sentence on that, back in the day ...

BUT!! I'm liking a lot of the the policies/proposals. Even if most voters end up preferring Brexit/May .. :(
 
ruffneck23 said:
same as , mostly tory round here but just chatting , people seem to be getting the message, hope its not too late
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Not gonna get my hopes up too much, but I do think getting policies known about will boost Corbyn's vote quite a lot.

Polling average is up by around 6-7% over this last month, and I think he will he will get a boost of a few more points over the next week. He won't win but it may not be a total disaster.
 
Mr Moose said:
Whatever you think of Jeremy as leader this idolisation of him is really fey, crap and cringey.
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It is, and it is interesting that the image he managed to project that allowed him to absolutely trounce his opponents, saintly honest Jeremy, not like other politicians, speaks truth to power but doesn't engage in personal attacks, was so utterly unconvincing to much of the wider electorate. There is no doubt that the media, many of his own party and others had a big role in making sure he was doomed but was it ever plausible that this sort of image would go down well with most people and he wouldn't just be seen as a bit of a shambles.
 
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